Hi Marc... The Alex Job Racing mid-engine Porsche 911 was light blue with different colored dots all over it. The rear wing was on struts rather than integrated to the rear bonnet such as this car and IIRC, this car was designed by Dave Klym from Fabcar (which formerly built Camel Lights chassis in the GTP era). This goes back to 1996. I recall the car specifically running at the Daytona Finale event (the event where it rained like a Monsoon) which may have been its race debut. A few weeks later, Hurley Haywood contacted me to ask if I'd do a pen and ink rendering of the car only in different livery with a particular sponsors logos on it so it may be presented to the potential sponsor and they would see how it would look. Not sure what happened but that sponsorship deal did not materialize and I don't recall the car competing much after that, it may have been at Daytona and Sebring in 1997 but beyond that not much and the experiment was scuppered. I do recall hearing about some European guys experimenting with mid-engine 911s and a few others were doing the same here as well. To my knowledge, this new 911 RSR is the first time the factory has come along with a racing version of a mid-engine 911. They've got a full year of development into the car so they'd be up to speed at the start of the WEC season and so far they've had mixed results. GTE Pro is going to be the class to watch with the top (what is it?) seven or eight cars within 1.5 seconds of each other. BHW Image Unavailable, Please Login
This is the GTE/ GTLM rules : TenTenths Motorsport Forum Porsche can re-positioned the engine because the 911 is produced in more or 2500 examples for year. with the Ford GT the problem is the car start to race before the street car is available, but the car is legal now.
Not much here to rejoice about !! So, Le Mans is following F1 in wanting to be relevant with street cars, and imposing the costly hybrid technology in LMP1. Then, they wonder why only 2 teams compete! I fear for endurance racing; these new rules will kill private teams and independent participation, the backbone of the grid at Le Mans. Apart from bigger cockpits and more space around the driver, I don't welcome the future rules.
Porsche Gets Weight Break in Pre-Race BoP Change. Porsche has been given a 8kg weight break ahead of tomorrows 24 Hours of Le Mans. Porsche Gets Weight Break in Pre-Race BoP Change - Sportscar365
Have read all the feedback on pages 8 and 9,huge detail. What I notice that there is NO mention of how all these regs will produce an exciting race as far as the spectators are concerned. Nobody seems interested in that.I hope that the excitement of endurance racing (and F1 for that matter) will not slowly loose its appeal to the racegoer....After all,he is the guy who finally funds the sport.
+1 It looks like all the rules in world championships (F1, WEC and rallying) head towards uniformity and don't allow diversity of designs. It's the specs series model through the back door.
I think the re-positioned of the engine in cars produced in more or 2500 examples for year is a good rule, because these cars in many cases are made to provide better comfort to passengers and this often involves to put the engine in places less convenient for the competition. Then these cars would be at a disadvantage with pure prototypes like the Ford GT. The re-positioned of the engine allow adjust these disadvantages. The Ferrari 488 is produced in more than of 2500 units for year, but the positions of the engine in this car is quite close to the ideal and therefore Ferrari could obtain few gain with that. I am sure that the future BMW M8 GTE will have a re-positioned of the engine as far back as possible in the front part, In order to achieve a better mass balance.
Being a Porsche fan, I am bias about Porsche interpretation of the rules. It has been done tongue in cheek. I think Ford opened a Pandora box last year by fielding a car that wasn't in production yet. Porsche found itself at a disadvantage and interpreted the rules to its advantage too, without the need to produce plenty of mid-engine GTE cars. Tit for tat, I think. The mid engine allow for a longer diffuser, and helps the aerodynamics of the car, I understand. But I hope that Porsche will never abandon the concept of the rear engine location for its street cars (the 911 derivative, that is), because it offers good packaging, good traction and extra space for luggage or occasional passengers. This, added, to the flat engine giving a low centre of gravity, is pure Porsche DNA going back to the 50s. I wouldn't like to see that disappear. I read that the future street GT2 R has still that rear-engine configuration with almost 700hp on tap. This, for me, is pure bliss and places Porsche apart from other sports cars manufacturers, many conforming to the mid-engine location.
I think that box has been open for a long time. BMW has run a number of cars that were no where near what you could actually buy. V8 E46 M3, hardtop v8 Z4..or think back to the Grand Am days when Mazda ran a tube chassis and a 3 rotor engine.
Of course the mid engine allow for a longer diffuser, and helps the aerodynamics of the car, this was the main reason for the re-positioned of the engine, but also this greatly improved the mass balance of the car.
Of course, other participants also "sailed close to the wind" in the past, but maybe not as ostentatiously as Ford. The BMW V8 E46, and V8 Z4 or the tubular Mazda 3-rotor raced in the USA, but didn't enter what is the star event in endurance racing: Le Mans 24 hours. Last year the ACO bent backwards to get FORD on the grid, maybe creating a precedent they will come to regret.
True they didn't run the LM 24. What were the rules like back in the GT1 days? Were those cars specifically allowed by the rules or was that creative interpretation as well? I recall that each manufacturer built a few road cars, but not many. Did Panoz have a road version of their GT1? I recall Mercedes, Porsche and McLaren did.
I much regret the passing of the GT1. I think they were terrific. I would prefer the WEC being run under GT1 rules rather than LMP. They had to produce 1 road car sample, and I believe most did. They now fetch insane value in auctions!!
Does anyone know why there are no Lamborghinis at this year's 24? There have been very many of them at the last 2 Daytona 24 Hrs, so there must be a reason ...
There are no Lamborghini GTE, only GT3. You need to have a GTE to participate in the WEC and Le Mans. Daytona 24 isn't part of that championship.
That wouldn´t make any difference to what they´re racing now: they´d stick a license plate to one of their prototypes and pretend that it´s a road car. The Dauer 962, Porsche 911 GT1 and Toyota GT-One come to my mind.
They only asked to build ONE unit of the road car to make it eligible for GT1. Everybody started racing prototypes and then built a few of them with blinkers, license plate and so on to make them road legal. As GT1s had some advantages over the "real" prototypes (after all, GT1s were "only" road cars), the racing got subverted. Some manufacturers like Toyota and Nissan only bothered to build the single unit that was required by the rules and sent it right to their museums.
I think to remember that a car had to be homologated as "road legal" in 3 different countries to be accepted as GT1. That was true of the Ferrari F40, the McLaren F1, and several others. To be honest, the last sensible rules I remember date from the 60s, when minimum cockpit size was imposed, together with minimum windscreen dimensions, minimum height, mandatory spare wheel and luggage space, etc.. The cars were called GT Prototypes in these days. Those were not bad rules. They produced the Ferrari P3/4, the Ford GT, the Lola T70, etc. all iconic cars.
But those were not real "road" cars anyway and having luggage space and a spare wheel in a race car is a bit ridiculous. I think that prototypes and GTs should not get mixed: the first is a purpose built race car and the second a modified road car. Although there always has been and will be someone trying to cross the line.
Imposing practical parameters on an endurance car isn't silly to me. I'm all for imposing minimum cockpit dimensions, door size, etc... Originally, endurance races were run with ordinary touring cars, like Bentleys, Alfa, etc... In the 50s, they started to admit prototype cars, but this has now gone out of hands with almost single seaters with enclosed bodies, hardly any resemblance to ordinary street cars. A prototype is supposed to be the forerunner of a future production car; that's what "prototype" means. I think it's time to go back to basics, rather than entertain the present trend, of disguised F1. Beside, LMPs have become so expensive that endurance is heading for a specs series in LMP2 to survive. That's not really in the spirit of endurance, which is supposed to be a competition among manufacturers.
This is what the classification will look like at the end of the ACO 24 Hours (opps, I mean Le Mans 24 Hours): LMP1: Toyota/Toyota/Porsche/ Kolles GT Pro: Ford/ Ford/ Ferrari
I think like you, I would also like to see LMP1 in the form of Extreme GT. Maybe it should be included in the regulation, Some rules that street car designers must keep. Its interesting to note what makes a high performance road car look like a road car rather the current LMPs, since both are (supposedly) 2 seater, 4-wheel vehicles:- *The biggest difference of course is that a road car like the McLaren MP4 12c is a proper two seater, seating two people in a relatively upright comfortable position... not a one and a half seater with a fire extinguisher/battery/KERS system in the passenger seat and a "green house" that is too big for one and too small for two. *The other difference is that a road car, even a high performance one, needs to have at least a little luggage space (generally at the front of a mid or rear engine vehicle). *The final area for main differences is related to safety legislation; bumpers and lights must be at or above a certain height above the road, and sharp edges must not present themselves in case of collision with pedetrians. https://scontent.fsst1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19113949_10211977658071290_2814738853173508261_n.jpg?oh=386189dc82f86f8e815b0c7617091a5f&oe=59D07190 The issues above would set the basis for my "Prototype Sportscar" chassis rules, the rules governing the bodywork itself would be relatively free, but of course it would have to wrap itself around the larger passenger area that would be mandated. Fire extinguisers/batteries/KERS systems would need to be either in the engine bay area or in the "luggage" area; not the driver/passenger area. Given those simple "road car" rules it would be interesting to see what aerodynamic solutions would be achieved; solutions that would be directly related, and applicable, to the challenges faced by road car designers....
