The 308/328 market is a rather more complex thing, than is often "lumped together" 308 'glass 308 NON CAT steel 308 carbed but with CATS 308 2V injected 308 4V injected 328 non ABS 328 ABS final version And then recently we have been discussing the two versions of the 208 Turbo, and the very popular (with those that actually OWN them!) 308GT4 Each of these models walks it's own path, in value, IMO
TARP and the current economic climate has really killed the demand, yet values are trending upward despite this...
Having owned both at the same time (78 GTB, and 72 246GT) must say the 308 was a more dependable car with creature comforts. The 246 however was just a beautiful creation. The chain drive, the sounds that it made, it's for the times nimbleness, and it's looks were all forgiving of it's nuances. The 308 had somewhat of a racing history whereas the 246 had none. The 246 was not thought of at the time as a true Ferrari, the 308 was,but the "old Man" had a certain love for the model 246 in it's creation. From the get go in retrospect the 246 was a better "investment" than the 308. I never thought of mine as such and would say nor did any owners that I knew. I put 38,000 miles on mine, had it repainted and though not carefree miles they were more than acceptable for a sports car where most dealerships were distant. Never really went down in price, then in the 80's less than 10 yrs. out of production was selling for approx. 4 x it's new price at approx. 51,000.00. Taking inflation into accord, current prices still reflect this old evaluation ratio to the value of our current currency. Youth of the time will reflect as to the future desirability of the 308. Personally having collected for a long time I do not believe the 308 has enough going for it to command the collectability statis equal to the 246. I sold both my 246 and the 308 approx. 84 and the 246 went for 55,000 and the 308 for 31,000 (approx. the sticker price). Time will tell. Stats are certainly better than current electronic Ferrari's. Time will tell. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Exactly. Economists call it supply and demand. But it is supply AND demand. Rarity means nothing if no one wants it. I think there are way too many beater 308s to make prices rise. Every car that comes up for sale has a laundry list of issues to fix, thus all cars sell (publicly) at a discount to the "real" value. If someone looks at the market they see every car as a project car. A whole lot of people just want to drive not to spend their time and money fixing an old car. And since there are no non-project 308 cars for sale they just move along to something else. 246s started getting restored because they are beautiful and prices rose because perfect cars started going on the market. Rising prices led to more restored cars getting sold at higher prices. Look at 246 ads now - all the cars are in very good condition that I see. What the 308 market needs is for Newman to start cranking out nicely restored 308s and publicly selling them for $120k. When perfect 308s are the market standard then both the products on the market and the prices will rise.
I respect your ownership experience and opinion but respectfully disagree. The last 308 is just a little more than a decade younger than the last 246. And as you also mentioned, the 246 wasn't even considered a real Ferrari in its day. So, how does the 308 not have enough going for it? Overall, it's a MUCH better car with a better pedigree. Now this is understandable and something I hadn't really considered. I agree we see far more "projects" than concours 308s. You don't see many 246s on craigslist or eBay either. And we all bemoan the cost of parts and labor on the 308, and its high maintenance reputation is well known. Brian, I think you've hit it on the head. The cars are relatively rare, but among the remaining, there are indeed more neglected "projects" out there than cars with little to no issues, which probably holds the market back as a whole.
IMO the 308 will go up in value, as it should! It's simply a beautiful, iconic car. But it will never reach the value of 206/246. The 308 production numbers are simply too high for that. What has driven 206/246 numbers up is speculators. Many (most?) don't pay $250,000 for one because they think it's necessarily "worth" $250,000. They do because they may like the car, but also because they think it will be worth $350,000 in the future. That's the "air" in the balloon. There is no balloon for 308s. They may rise a bit (like they have!), but a lot of that is simply inflation. I.e., it takes $38,000 to buy today what took $30,000 a few years ago, but that applies to everything because the dollar is worth less today than it was a few years ago. There are other cars that are going nuts, like 911S's. Those are going for $200,000+ these days, when it wasn't long ago they were $25,000 cars (I remember those days, and cars that I passed on, all too well!). The production number on those 911s from '67 to '73 is more than 206/246, but still less than 308. And given that they are so much older, and have been ridden a lot harder, there are far fewer 911S's around than 308s.
Well, Supply and Demand is a dance with two participants. (I'm sure there is a great French expression there.) Your example of the Jaguar is like American muscle cars. Lots made, yet in very high demand, high value. And of course the 208, not many made, but "no one" wants one so low value. Of course you understand this, I know. At this point Ferrari 308 values are the anomaly. As far as Dino vs. 308, Dr. Who (Dale) put it best when comparing the 275 GTB ($1.5M+) vs. the Daytona ($600k). Something like, curves and circles have higher value than wedges and straight lines. -F
You may be right. I am going to "fix" both of my offerings, then 'shut up' on their inherent shortcomings. Sell to some starry eyed newb, and be done!! That's not the way Ferraris used to change hands. I bought all of mine from honest gentlemen.... "When were the belts changed???" "Yesterday, buddy.....you want it or not?"
fcat do you have any ideas what is holding back the last 356's. I currently own a 3 owner 65 356C that is probably one of the most primo in the world with documentation from day one out of the showroom as to every service,every part and of course my extension restoration. Magnum I guess you are a owner of a 308 currently as I was a number of years ago. No one has a 100% track record as to collector value. I really hope for all owners to score on their 308's having owned one new in 77. I made a mistake calling it a 78 in prior post. I did not state it wasn't a nice car, but it wasn't iconic as was the 246. I failed to mention the reason I sold my 246 and 308 was to pursue my collecting. As such I saw the opportunity to move further into Ferrari collecting which resulted in my purchase of a new 84 BBi of which was the importer of said car. Sold it at the height of the market for a price that has yet to be reached by current market. Not everything however no matter what facts you thing you are armed with work as I fell flat on my face buying an new 88 Testa which I called the" pre death car" as it was made a day or so prior to Enzo's death, but what we in much of then Ferrari community felt was possibly the death of Ferrari as a manufacturer to be totally replaced by Fiat. The second big collector mistake was the passing on my ordered F-40. So just like stocks-Don't fall in Love! Docf
Thanks for the posts docf...I think you are spot on, actually. I had an uncle with a 246, and he drove it "like any car" before moving on. Yea, the F40 was a keeper....who knew?? That said, they are needy little b***es too..... George Foreman's always has stale gas......
I think Ferraris are the "anti stock" as you cannot help but fall in love... And, I have NEVER had a school bus full of kids wave back, at my stock portfolio.....
I think the 308 is fabulous and I have always wanted one. I first saw one in Italy around 1980 and I remember being awe struck by the circular air intake and the beauty of the lines. I only knew cars as boxes as that time (see 1980 fiat panda!). I have wanted a 308 for over 30 years and I just bought one last year. So maybe the earlier posts about poeple needing to age etc are accurate. I wanted to get the most special 308 I could find so searched all over Italy and bought a fiberglass euro spec, dry sump one, then gave it a full restoration and classiche certification at the factory in Maranello. Yes I'm into 6 figures and I don't care - I love the car. It is actually at Selleria Luppi getting the interior finished as we speak and the classiche binder has already arrived. Can post more pictures once I get the car back but a teaser is below - check out the quality of the work. Maybe I am the start of the new wave of buyers! Image Unavailable, Please Login
Yes sir, bought my 308 over a year ago. I'm really not advocating $300K 308s, because I couldn't enjoy it like I do now should it appreciate like a 246. I have no plans to sell but you never know what's around the corner. Several good members here have been dealing with health issues recently and we've even lost a member or two since I've been part of the community, which puts a toy car into perspective. I believe the car is worth considerably more than the current market, so I'll sit back and see what happens. I just don't understand how 246s command these ridiculous prices compared to a good 308, but the discussion today has been informative and beneficial.
isn't it obvious? it's all about the design. Sure, rarity counts, but if 246 looked like Mondial(no offense to Mondial owners), I doubt a Mondial with V6 175hp would've got so popular.
Kind of off topic but Toyota 2000GT sells for $1.16 million. Toyota 2000GT sells for $1.16 million at auction | Digital Trends
Actually, not true. As I have intimated in other posts, that Dinos cost two to two and one half times more than a carbureted 512 Boxer is absolutely asinine. As you all likely know, the 246 Dino was designed by Ferrari and built by Fiat; for many years, it was considered the "red-headed step-child" in the Ferrari world. It has a wet sump, six pot engine, and, though certainly beautiful, and gifted with nimble handling, its performance is so-so. On the other hand, the 512 Boxer was Ferrari designed and Ferrari built, its engine is a reasonable approximation of the infamous flat 12 racing engine, and even by today's standards, it goes like snot. Furthermore, and to respectfully dispute this poster's...well...post, approximately 2400 246 Dino GTSs were built; I believe approximately 929 Carbed 512;s; even if we add the approximate 1000 FI Boxers, that still leaves more Dinos having been build, and, yet, again, they still command approximately twice the $. Idiotic IMHO. As far as 308s...12,000 built, though obviously there were many iterations.
I don't follow. Maybe it's the Mondial reference. You think the 246 is better looking than the 308? I don't. I see the beginning of the 308 in the lines of the 246, but Fioravanti finally put it all together with the 308, and eventually 288.
Looks like you have an absolute JEWEL! Stunning. Beautiful. Look forward to the additional photos. Thank you for giving such a special vehicle such good care. Stepping back and viewing the sportscars landscape in general, the 308 is and always has been one of the cars at the pinnacle: a sexy, handmade Ferrari. Enzo chose to mass produce one of his masterpieces and, because he did, we are lucky that they are not all locked up in private museums only to be seen intermittently on lawns of fancy concours. On occasion I do I startle myself that I actually own such a Ferrari. I just never even dreamed that big as a teenager.
I love my 308 GTS, but I think the 206/246 is a better package for today's congested world. The Dino has a compact footprint, for a little extra space all around, 6-cylinders for comfortable cruising, and a mid engine layout for good agility. It's the right size with just the right amount of sophistication, without a lot of complexity. I would think this bodes well for a long term, fun, daily driver. I'd trade my 308 and some cash for a 246. Bill
As many of us have stated no one knows the direction of the collector car market involving Ferrari cars. Youth at introduction obviously creates the deep desire. Many say a certain model is not rare enough! What is rarity? Some say today's "electronic cars" will never arise to the likes of the past as they are numerous. Personally I believe this is false. The world wide market today is vast in comparison to the market of only a few decades ago,thus the numbers of potential buyers,dreamers has exponentially increased immensely. In the early 70's there were only approx. 4-5 major Ferrari dealers in the USA. Who of us in our right minds would have invested in such limited access. Without looking things up we only had Ron Turkin, Cressman, Chiovitti , FAF and a few I can't remember as dealers. Parts were a nightmare. I'll never forget buying the 77 308 from Cressman and going for service. The service bay was literally a cluttered garage with 2 service bays in a rundown district of Lauderdale. Currently my love is my aging 360 F1, not for appreciation,speed etc,but an old gift to myself for an event. Maybe a 458 if time allows in the future. Keep the spirit alive,good collecting,keep youth engaged. These are all wonderful cars.
The 246 is special and magical - almost mythical now - and seeing a nice one is an event. The 308 will never quite get that exclusivity. Sure, EVENTUALLY 308's will become priceless. Don't think anyone here is going to live to see that, though. Cheers, George
There's no consistent rationale to value in this market. It's about perception and market momentum. By most any performance parameter the 308 is a "better" car. Whether it's better looking or not is a matter of personal taste and of prevailing fashion. To my eye the original 308 GTB is one of the most beautiful designs ever. There isn't an awkward line on it. The 246 although beautiful is not as perfectly proportioned. But the market has accepted it as Blue Chip and the 308 not (yet). A car's worth whatever someone will pay for it.
