Restoring my 78 308GTS | FerrariChat

Restoring my 78 308GTS

Discussion in '308/328' started by Helmut, Jun 20, 2009.

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  1. Helmut

    Helmut Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2004
    640
    I have come to an interesting new chapter in the restoration of my 78 308. The engine is in and I am putting everything back together around the engine compartment, which after 4 years of restoring feels good. (I will post pictures in a few days, camera battery is dead) Today I installed the new gear reduction starter and noticed that there are 3 cables that meet on the power terminal. Power from the battery, one to the Relay panel and one to the Alternator. There is barely enough room on the terminal for all those cables. Its already a pita to reach up there and trying to put the cables on and tightening it down. I am wondering if anybody has had problems with that nut coming lose etc.?
    The original starter motor btw doesn't have any more space on that terminal. I triple-checked to see if I may be doing something wrong but the diagram shows all three cables going to that place.

    Helmut
     
  2. brook308

    brook308 Formula Junior

    Oct 19, 2007
    346
    SS Coast, Australia
    Full Name:
    George
    #2 brook308, Jun 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Helmut,

    The biggest hassel I had in removing my engine was undoing the nut on the starter for the battery feed etc.

    So before putting the engine back in I made up a cable feed from the starter which included three wires,

    main battery feed, starter soleniod and alternator output.

    This allowed me to then mount a junction point on the body where you could easily check and disconnect the cables from the engine.

    I guess it's a bit late for that now but yes hooking up the battery to the started is a PITA especially without a lift.

    Here's a pic of the motor showing the silver heat proof sheath containing the loom from the starter.
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  3. AZDoug

    AZDoug Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2009
    1,606
    Along the Verde , AZ
    Full Name:
    Doug


    DUDE!

    Thanks for the idea!

    Getting to those starter wires is a terrible, terrible thing. The Horror! You are working blind, and arm space is minimal.


    Helmut: What gear redux starter did you use?

    Doug
     
  4. Helmut

    Helmut Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2004
    640


    Yeah, that definitely seems to be the way to do it, or the way it should have been done from the designers originally. Your engine looks fantastic by the way.
    So did you run the white cable that goes to the ignition and the yellow cable that also goes to the alternator in a separate harness besides the 3 power cables?

    I bought my starter from britishstarters.com, I found them on ebay and my mechanic said that he thinks those starters are way better than the original ones. I had to replace the flywheel most likely due to a failing starter, so I was very interested in finding something thats hopefully better.

    Helmut
     
  5. Barnone 308

    Barnone 308 Formula Junior

    Mar 22, 2004
    432
    canada
    Engine looks beautiful,

    I have a couple of questions, I noticed that in the picture of the engine, your distributor caps are different then factory ferrari caps, did you find a replacement?. Also, would you happen to have the procedure to degree the cams. I have a 1978 308 GTS like yourself, and would like to attempt to rebuild, but need some comfort around degreeing cams.
     
  6. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,846
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    He has a Black Stallion ignition system on his engine which essentially looks nearly identical to the early Euro setup with just one distributor on the front bank. Euro cars were given the single distributor due to no emission requirements (still had dual points or dual pick-ups inside the one distributor though).
     
  7. rolindsay

    rolindsay Formula 3

    Jul 14, 2006
    1,022
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Rick Lindsay
    ...on the US cars. My '79 has the single distributor, electronic pick-ups and twin Morelli modules.
     
  8. Helmut

    Helmut Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2004
    640
    #8 Helmut, Jun 23, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This is what I have to report after 4 years, I know it sounds somewhat pathetic but I am chipping away at it. I had the car sodablasted and repainted Red, I know its the cliche color but I am sort of enjoying the things I have never had, one of which is a red sportscar. I used Glasurit Paint which really came out lovely. Considering that I used to work in production sound on movies, I have come to learn the strangest ways in which cables can go bad so I got all new wires for the car (from Ferrari UK). I rebuilt the suspension got new Koni shocks, new wheelbearings, new engine mounts, I cut one of the old ones open.... pretty scary whats inside one of those after 30 years. I had all the major components like nuts and bolts and brackets etc. replated or powder coated including the brake calipers, which are being assembled right now. I got the aluminum precision cam pulleys instead of the original plastic ones, stainless steel valves, JE pistons with 10:1 compression, got the transmission completely rebuilt and had the carbs rebuilt; Mastercylinder and brake booster got rebuilt, new clutch, new flywheel, new starter, Dave Helms rebuilt the waterpump to the expected level of perfection :) and I installed his waterhoses which are very nice and great to work with. I also removed the heatshields from the headers and had the entire exhaust triple ceramic coated, inside and out. Of course there are many more small things that got replaced, all the hoses got replaced or are being replaced including the AC hoses and heater/vacuum hose in the rocker panels. I still need a fuelpump etc.
    I feel like I am about 75% finished right now and just wanted to share some of it, especially since this community has been extremely helpful. A project like this would have been impossible for me without the internet.

    Thanks
    Helmut
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  9. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms
    Absolutly stunning!
     
  10. Helmut

    Helmut Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2004
    640
    Thanks Dave!
     
  11. FasterIsBetter

    FasterIsBetter F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2004
    5,855
    NoNJ/Jupiter FL
    Full Name:
    Steve W.
    Sorry, late to the thread, but I had the same problem getting the cable onto the hi torq starter. The real problem was that the terminal on the hi torq was further away than the one on the original, so had to stretch the cables further to reach, and it was a tight fit. After 2 years, no problems, and the car cranks over like a champ!!
     
  12. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 26, 2001
    14,448
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    Great work Helmut, im sitting here with a grin on my face knowing the monumental task you're going through. Im getting tired just thinking about it! My first drive revealed a few bugs but it still felt great, now with the bugs gone the car is amazing to drive and somehow all that hard work paid off in an instant. I cant wait to hear your feedback after its on the road.
     
  13. Helmut

    Helmut Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2004
    640
    I am glad to hear that you like the starter, I am looking forward to actually using it :)

    Yeah, I am prepared for the bugs as long as they are not major, I wouldn't be happy if for some reason an oil-leak would appear etc. but I think it should be fine. It's funny because when I got my car, your thread was already in full swing and I read your posts, thinking hmmm that's interesting, this guys is realllly going for it, may be I should dig a lil deeper as well. So there you have it, it's all your fault :)
    I will be very excited when I hear that engine running.

    Thanks
    Helmut
     
  14. mustardfj40

    mustardfj40 Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
    1,142
    Northen California
    Full Name:
    Ken
    Very impressive!!!! Btw, what kind of paint/color did you use to paint the gas tanks?
     
  15. Easyrider7467

    Easyrider7467 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2005
    980
    Northen N.J.
    Full Name:
    John
    WOW, That's really nice....

    I would love to restore a car oneday....
     
  16. b27

    b27 F1 World Champ

    Oct 11, 2007
    15,781
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Brett
    It does sound fun until you start. Be prepared these projects take time. Trust me I know. ;)

    Helmet, it looks fantastic. Great job mate.
     
  17. Easyrider7467

    Easyrider7467 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2005
    980
    Northen N.J.
    Full Name:
    John

    B27, Yes. thanks for the slap in the face. I will certainly read (alot) and learn (as much) before venturing anything.


    Looking fwd to more Helmut
     
  18. Helmut

    Helmut Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2004
    640
    Thanks! It was a metallic finish paint for high temperatures, probably SEM since that is what I use the most. Its been a while since I painted those. I scrubbed them first as much as possible, I still have to put the rubber patches back on.

    I hope that you would still wanna restore one after you read a lot about it :)

    Reading Newmans thread really is what helped me; I am the classic germanic perfectionist enough to drive people who work with me nuts but Newman went all the way. I am looking at this more like a hobby. I am not following exactly whats original, I add touches that I like, like the red cam covers or some gloss powder coat for the sake of cleanability later on etc.

    Helmut
     
  19. gustafson

    gustafson Rookie

    Dec 21, 2005
    5
    Boy, for Ferrari owners, you just do not COMPLAIN enough!!

    We can supply you with a terminal that will wrap the connections around the back of the starter, and just by chance, the stud is a little bit longer.

    http://www.wai-wetherill.com/products/partimage.cfm?wai_num=76-82566

    there are insulators that fit onto it and come with it[3 different part numbers to complete it]


    We will do that from now on when we ship the starters out in the first place.

    If anyone wants one you can get one from a local auto electric place or email us at:

    [email protected]

    and we will send one out.

    They cost, like, nothing.

    Honestly, we always need feedback about any fit issues etc and this is the easiest thing in the world to fix. I don't know if it will be 'perfect' but I think it will be an improvement. Please please always get your comments back up the supply chain, if we can do something we will

    Keith

    Gustafson Specialty Products LLC
    www.gustafsonspecialty.com

    978 281 2012
     
  20. tomoshea

    tomoshea Formula Junior

    Dec 29, 2003
    541
    Ireland
    Full Name:
    Tom O'Shea
    #20 tomoshea, Jul 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  21. Easyrider7467

    Easyrider7467 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2005
    980
    Northen N.J.
    Full Name:
    John
    Helmut engine looks spectacular !!!

    How about the other areas, front bay area, radiators, anything really...
     
  22. Helmut

    Helmut Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2004
    640
    #22 Helmut, Aug 4, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I focused on the front of the car first, its pretty much put together, still looking for some parts for the headlight lifting device etc. In the last few days I installed most of the new carpeting. I work on different areas at a time until I am missing some part etc. then I work on another area where a part may have come in in the meantime. I also finished up the doormechanism after I finally located some new plastic clips that hold the rods for the doorlocks. Russ from Ferrparts, definitely the man to call I have to say. I also have been looking forever for the rubbergaskets that go on the rear little shocks that hold the rear bumper, the gaskets that sit right behind the bumper where the shock enters the body of the car. Most catalogues don't even show a partnumber for that but US cars have it.

    The picture of the front is from last year when I was working on that area. A lot of things have been tightened up in the meantime. Many times I put something together and I feel like it could be done better and I take it apart again and get more new parts or get more plating done on parts which I originally thought I would just clean and reinstall. Its a very organic process as I constantly quality control myself and also get to know the car better the more I work on it. I looked at the thread of the factory pictures and I feel like these guys had it easy, whenever they need a part they just grab a brandnew one out of some bin, I could put this car together pretty quickly at this point if I had all the parts brandnew at my fingertips. Many times I end up improving on the original like the insulation material for example, I took out all the tons of rockwool and replaced it with various layers of Dynamat. Under the trunk, on the firewall etc.

    Helmut
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  23. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2005
    2,198
    Seattle, Washington
    Full Name:
    Cliff
    Absolutely beautiful Helmut - keep up the good work. I love seeing someon'e work who really takes pride in their workmanship - it's the journey that's fun, not arriving at the destination (well, both can be fun!). You'll be finished pretty soon and enjoying some time behind the wheel with her.
     
  24. Helmut

    Helmut Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2004
    640
    Thanks Cliff! Can't wait til the "neverending string of tasks" is finished at this point :)
     
  25. irondogmike

    irondogmike F1 Rookie

    Sep 8, 2006
    2,532
    San Diego area
    Full Name:
    Michael Tucker
    you're very brave to attemp doing something like this,I won't know where to start on putting like this back together. I would be so wanting to get it done and drive it that I'm sure there would be things I didn't do right or have things put in first when it should've been last. But your doing a great job:D
     

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