25% duty on classic car imports??? | Page 4 | FerrariChat

25% duty on classic car imports???

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by sixcarbs, Jun 14, 2018.

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  1. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
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    Correct, I am glad someone brought up elasticity of demand. If demand is inelastic the buyer absorbs all of the tax. If it's elastic the seller will absorb some percentage of it.

    Example:

    A car normally trades at $100,000 all day long. Now we introduce a tariff of 25%. This does not mean the buyers will now pay $125,000 for that car. They will pay between $100,000 and $125,000 depending on how elastic the demand is.

    Maybe the most the buyers will pay is $110,000, this means that the seller will now only get $88,000. ($110,000/1.25) There are probably less sellers of the car at $88,000 and fewer buyers at $110,000.

    An example of inelastic demand is gasoline. Most people (Present company excluded) don't use gasoline recreationally. So, a 25% tax on gasoline is almost 100% absorbed by the consumer. If gas is $2/gallon and the tax is 25%, the new price with tax will probably settle close to $2.50.

    If demand is 100% elastic the seller will absorb the tariff. Buyer's will still pay $100,000 but the seller will only receive $80,000. Again, less transactions at that price because fewer people willing to sell.

    DIdn't the luxury tax kill the yacht business in the 90's? That's because demand for yachts was elastic. People could live without them.

    Tariffs suck, taxes suck.
     
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  2. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Veteran
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    I don't agree with the idea that it's only people who were impressionable 10 year-olds when the cars were built, who drive demand for them. The demand for, for example, Vintage (pre-1931) Bentleys, Bugattis, Alfas, etc., is as strong as ever, but there aren't too many centenarians who are buying them today. Their grandchildren are, though. And if you were to try buying an Edwardian Silver Ghost at auction today, you wouldn't be bidding against 120 year-olds, and you might be into the £millions if you wanted to win it.
     
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  3. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    I believe there will always be wealthy men who will buy cars...
    I'll leave mine to my kids, or they can sell them when I am demented and have my license taken away from me...either way the cars have no monetary value to me.
    When I buy a car I pay cash...that cash is gone and I view the car as zero. I don't add the value of my cars to my net worth spreadsheet.
     
  4. sidtx

    sidtx F1 Rookie
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    I find it somewhat amusing that successful people here on a Ferrari forum are arguing over price increase.

    First world problems.

    Sid
     
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  5. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Well, it doesn't add value (to the car), it only enriches a middleman (the government).
     
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  6. jgriff

    jgriff Formula 3

    Jun 16, 2008
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    Totally agree. People who are upset about their cars going up in value for fear of rising insurance seem the same as the people who worry about making too much money and going into a higher tax bracket and the people who try to talk down the value of their house to avoid property taxes. I would love to have those problems.

    And as far as the vintage car industry being hurt by taxes, cry me a river. The petrochemical business has been hammered by taxes for decades and we don’t get any sympathy, in fact everyone hates us and the government is actively trying to help people put us out of business. You’re lucky there are no laws against driving antique cars yet. That would put you almost completely out of business. In our current environment that could happen, I’d be surprised if it doesn’t. Get ready for static displays with concrete in the cylinders or an electric powered 250 GTO. Gasoline powered cars are an offshoot of the petrochemical industry, the hate is coming for vintage cars too.
     
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  7. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
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    People will just ship their cars to countries that are still car friendly. That's the beauty of having assets that are very mobile unlike a house stuck to the ground...I would personally move my cars to a vacation home in central america or Caribbean rather than turn it to static display.
     
  8. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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  9. willrace

    willrace Three Time F1 World Champ
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  10. davidoloan

    davidoloan Formula Junior

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    The only newish American cars I have seen on the road in recent times are a couple of new Mustangs, a few Chysler 300c's and nothing else I can think of. I saw a new Corvette about two years ago.
     
  11. willrace

    willrace Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Hollyweird? Detroit?
     
  12. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    No tariffs means there is an INCENTIVE for US makers to design and make more cars that would fit the Euro market.

    You can't look at it today. You have to look at it in the future.

    Tesla has done a great job in Europe considering they are basically a start up.
     
  13. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    the funny thing about that 300c....
    it started off being a mercedes e class circa 1990, then daimler brought it to chrysler, and they stuck a new body on it, and it became the chrysler 300c, then fiat took it and now call it a lancia.....and the europeans like it just fine because it is called a lancia.......
    what a merry go round.
     
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  14. davidoloan

    davidoloan Formula Junior

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    Oh yes, I have seen a few Tesla’s. Very forgettable shapes on the road though.
     
  15. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    That was kind of its intention. I'm not a big fan of he shape but it didn't cause any controversy. I think Tesla thought the electric part was enough "controversy" and didn't want to turn anyone off with the styling. Also, it's designed to be really practical because they are expensive.
     
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  16. davidoloan

    davidoloan Formula Junior

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    Surprisingly cheap looking though, both exterior and especially interior. I understand a conservative styling statement, but for example Mercedes have been making conservative looks with substance with the S Class for decades. I didn't realise I was seeing model S's at first because they look like any other Japanese car.
     
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  17. davidoloan

    davidoloan Formula Junior

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    I saw a shiny new F350 Ford pick up outside a village shop one day. Only the middle section was in the village. That certainly stood out as American.

    For 25 years now there have been attempts to sell US cars here. But we don't buy them. Even the new Mustang which is a nice design, and available in RHD I think is never seen, once in a blue moon. I think the only one that has sold in numbers, although small numbers is the 300c. When new it looked very American. A definite out of towner, but it was accepted. The Corvette never sells well even in LHD markets like Germany.

    I remember in the late 90's someone bought the big Cadillac with the Northstar V8, which I would see all the time, but it looked very bland. That is the only new Cadillac I have seen since, as long as you don't count London or similar city. American cars are very rare in Europe.
     
  18. sidtx

    sidtx F1 Rookie
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    If no one in the EU buys American made cars, then why have a tariff?

    Eliminate the car tariff, Trump responds by eliminating the US tariff on European cars. Everyone wins! American cars still wont sell due to no demand, but European cars will still sell in the US due to demand. Everyone wins.

    sid
     
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  19. davidoloan

    davidoloan Formula Junior

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    There are some small exceptions. I remember the Chrysler Crossfire and a small bubble shaped 4 door car called the Neon sold enough you would see them occasionally. There is probably a big exception I'm not thinking about.
     
  20. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
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    If you were looking for an investment, TELL THE TRUTH, which one would you buy?

    Oh, sorry, I see you've left the building...

    D
     
  21. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    American cars don’t sell well in Europe for many reasons.
    Too big to fit into most garages or parking spots; sometimes not economical enough; not luxurious enough to compete with the Germans; not enough of a dealer support network; parts hard to get; different styling emphasis etc

    The funny thing is that the only American car I have ever owned, was a Cadillac SRX that I bought in geneva. I loved it because it was 30% less than the comparable German suv; was faster than a Cayenne S; was virtually unique since they only sold about 30 in geneva; and it functioned very very well as the school bus/mountain car.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  22. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    How many are left of each?
     
  23. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
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    #98 F355 Fan 82, Jun 23, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
    I have not left, Im just done commenting bc I dont wanna get bans from the mods like you and yshilik or whatever his name is. Im a grown man and getting put in timeout on the internet is just laughable to me so I just move on.

    WHICH ONE WOULD I BUY??? Im 32 why on earth would I want a 246 GT that I never once dreamed of as a kid? Most my age would agree with me and buy the 575 and guess what, they're the collectors of the future.....and as an investment, like Wayne Gretzky said, "I skate where the puck is going, not where it's been".....246 GT at $300-400k or 575 at $100k is a no brainer. The generation that wanted 246's like Michael sheehan said, they've already had their toys and are moving on, meanwhile the generation that wanted the 575 they're still in their 20s and 30s, so yea as an investment I still would prefer the 575 at this juncture. To pay $300k on a 246 dino and make 200% you need it to go to $900k, possible and probable. For a 575 to go up 200% you need it to go from $100k to $300k.....that is definitely more likely and hence "a better investment" at this stage in the game.

    Its nice to know you were wrong though calling the 575 maranello not rare and the 246 gt rare when the 575 was produced in smaller quantities....nice to know mods make mistakes too. Of course lots on this site disagree with me, how many other 32 year old exotic owners are on this site? So yea my opinions on classics of the future is going to differ from many of you who are 50-70 years old.

    Here is what Sheehan had to say on your generation moving on from their classics, someone has to step in and buy those cars at those wild valuations, I have serious doubts its going to be guys my age bc they'll be busy buying murcielagos,diablos, 575s, SLR Mclarens, etc......

    https://www.ferrariownersclub.co.uk/sheehan-speaks-market-correction/
     
  24. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
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    #99 F355 Fan 82, Jun 23, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
    Here was the exact quote from Sheehan if you didn't want to open the link

    The Baby-Boomers are moving on
    I could have used 246 GTs or GTSs or 330 GTCs or almost every other Enzo-era Ferrari. They all show the same trend. As outlined in last month’s article, we’re going through a major generational shift as the baby-boomers leave the collectable market. Those who wanted to own an Enzo-era Ferrari already have. When one gets senior discounts, their priorities turn to business succession, retirement, health issues, kids, grandkids and Mediterranean cruises. Ferraris fall far down the list of priorities. Adding to the global downturn, in the last two years the Euro, the Cdn dollar, the Aussie dollar and the Pound have all dropped against the strong USD. Ferraris are almost always priced in USD so the Europeans, the Brits, the Aussis and Canadians have left the ever-higher Enzo-Era Ferrari price party.

    Just as noticeable is the relative lack of buyers. Cars that would have gotten five or more offers two years ago now receive only one or two, and often need price reductions before they sell. The ride had to come to an end at some point, the long-awaited market correction is here.

    Also back to your earlier post since you said the 575 wasn't rare, do you consider the Mercedes 300SL from late 50s and 60s rare? I have never in my life seen one on the road....they made way less 575's and superamericas than the great 300SL which they made 3000+ of selling for $1M+ today.....so is the 575 really still "not rare" in your book.....here's the stats


    Production Numbers:

    Production Numbers of the 300SL gullwing coupe from August 1954 to May 1957

    1954 146 units
    1955 867 units
    1956 311 units
    1957 76 units

    total: 1400 units

    Production Numbers of the 300SL Roadster from February/May 1957 to February 1963

    1957 554 units
    1958 324 units
    1959 211 units
    1960 249 units
    1961 250 units
    1962 244 units
    1963 26 units

    total: 1858 units

    http://www.silverstarrestorations.com/300SL.htm
     
  25. Statler

    Statler F1 World Champ

    Jun 7, 2011
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    Insufferable.
     
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