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250 Engine Block Interno # Question/Help

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by 19633500GT, Mar 31, 2015.

  1. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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    My friend and I have a 250 PF Coupe engine block, a bare block and intend to sell it sometime soon. Now, my question is, does/can anyone besides the Ferrari Factory, tell you which car (by serial #) the engine belongs in, strictly based off of the interno #?

    The short version is that this block, sometime in the late 1960's/early 1970's was "stamped", by someone, with a SWB engine number, but the original interno comes back as a 250 PF Coupe, the issue is, without knowing the original engine number (which the current stamp covers) we have no way of solving this mystery. Any thoughts? What's a fair market value for a bare, OE 250 block? Any help or thoughts are greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Ken
     
  2. MJarrettR

    MJarrettR Formula 3

    Apr 14, 2004
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    What is the internal number?

    Would you mind posting a photo?

    Best

    -Jarrett
     
  3. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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    #3 19633500GT, Mar 31, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  4. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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    #4 19633500GT, Mar 31, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  5. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    888
    I would say pretty much the same value as a brand new FC block so long it is in good condition, unless you can find out which cars this is coming from and this car still exists and the owner want to have a matching number car again. This is a long process though, to find out and to negotiate. And again is would be a matching 250, not a matching 250SWB so the increased value exists, but again you have to rebuild the engine etc so not too much margin to play.
     
  6. MJarrettR

    MJarrettR Formula 3

    Apr 14, 2004
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    Thanks for the photos. The block is from a late 250 GTE 2+2, probably in the 48XX or 49XX range. Unfortunately I don't have that internal number in my database, you'll probably need to talk to the Factory to get the correct chassis number.

    For example 4893GT has internal number 1580/62 E, 4931GT has internal number 1546/62 E, etc.

    Best

    -Jarrett
     
  7. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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    Jarrett, I appreciate the help, I am curious though how it can be deducted which car, specifically, either GTE, PF, GT etc. the internal engine number can actually "show" and match to the specific model, without knowing the actual engine number. Since this ends in "/62E", is that how you're coming to the conclusion of GTE?

    Either way I'm mystified without actually knowing what real engine number was originally stamped on this block.
     
  8. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    888
    Only the factory knows the NI for each chassis number and they won't share with you.
    When you go through classification they will only tell you if the engine is original but if not they won't tell you which car it is coming from.
    Having said that, if you have seen a lot of engines and cars you can have your own database of engine numbers. They follow certain sequences. If some cars where manufactured at the same time there is always a risk of confusion but if a number fits in the middle if a batch of 330 for example it is likely it would be a 330 engine. Anyway the engines with this type of suffix are 250 engines and could be GTE, I think some Lusso also had same number system. There is on FChat a forum just for chassis numbers some specialized people may have more clues.
     
  9. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Nov 11, 2003
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    /62E is the last revision of 128-block that was introduced when 250 GTO entered production early in 1962. If factory says it came from a pf coupe, then it must be a GTE engine as that was the only pf coupe in production at the time.
     
  10. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    888
    But it could also be a block of a Lusso, from memory my Lusso 4509GT had a /62E NI. And the ex Steve Mc Queen Lusso as per barchetta has also a /62E NI.
     
  11. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    888
    Let's go back to the original statement, who said this engine is from a 250PF coupe? The factory, dealers, sources, you? I don't think any 250PF coupe stricto sensu came with those engine types. early ones had inside plugs and later ones outside plugs but were much earlier than the / 62 E engine blocks.
     
  12. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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    The factory, though vague in how they explained it, like you'd mentioned above, they don't divulge the exact car. I believe the wording was an "early 1960's 250 GT, likely a PF Coupe" NOW, remember, the factory doesn't have a database that's 100% digital and intact to the point they just punch in an internal number and *poof* it shows them the history all encompassing, thus my exploration here, since obviously someone stamped a well known, and very rare 250SWB engine number in the block, and it isn't that cars engine (though ironically that car was last sold with a GTE engine (?) and OE block in tow). And so, that's the mystery to me.

    Anyway, it will likely go up on eBay sometime soon and if someone needs a true vintage 250 block, then I guess they may take a stab.
     
  13. hhibbett

    hhibbett Karting

    Aug 24, 2008
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    Hi Ken,

    Would you mind posting your eBay listing here once you offer it? It would be interesting to see what response you get.
     
  14. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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    Absolutely. I'm interested too what feedback transpires.

    Ken
     
  15. Ferrari_250tdf

    Ferrari_250tdf Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2005
    284
    I remember an article in the Ferrari Market letter many years ago by Hilary Raab in which he tells the story when he went to the factory sometimes in the 70s. He asked there how long it would take to have an engine completely rebuild by Ferrari. The answer he got was like "bring it today, pick it up tomorrow". They showed him shelves of spare or replacement engines ready to be installed and told him that they pull the engine, take one from the shelve, stamp the chassis number and off you go. Then they rebuild the engine from your car, grind off your chassis number and put it one day in another car.

    Who knows how often that happened?

    You can ask Ferrari if they have any info on this engine block if it has a history like that.
     
  16. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    Ken, this is the motor out of 250 GTE s/n 4917GT. For years, it was in put into use as a coffee table by its previous owners.
     
  17. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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  18. jim fuchs

    jim fuchs Rookie

    Jan 10, 2004
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    The 250 block also appears to be of the series with four (4) head bolts (i.e. 168 series) versus the three (3) head bolt series (i.e. 128 series).
     
  19. tritone

    tritone F1 Rookie
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    So to complete the story, where did s/n 4917GT go?

    I expect you will say; "metamorphosed into a replica GTO/Cal Spyder/SWB/etc....."?
     
  20. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Every 250 engine built after 168 was introduced for 1960 had four studs.
     
  21. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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    I inquired with the 250GTE registry. They said they have literally no history on it's whereabouts. Sad, it's prob a "GTO" :/
     
  22. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    I don't have access to my database this weekend, but I'll check on Monday to see what I have on 4917GT. If Tom Wilson has nothing, however, then in all likelihood I'll have nothing as well.
     
  23. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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    Tom wrote back to me: "Hi Kenny - Thanks for checking in. 4917 GT is one of the few cars in the GTE Register that we have absolutely no information on other than the fact that it was built!"

    I wonder though if someone out there has any tidbit on it. Chances are slim though if this block has been out of the car since the 70's though. Unfortunate.
     
  24. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    Same here, unfortunately:

    4917GT
    250 GTE 2+2 Series III
    Destinazione: Vari, Italy
    PF job # 68632

    And then information on the engine.
     

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