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250 Europa orioginality

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Longstone Tyres, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula 3
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  2. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior

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    Longstone,

    The details of your listing focus on the 250GT Europa, which has the Colombo-designed engine; not the same as your heading stating 250 Europa. You should change the heading to 250GT Europa (or 250 Europa GT - I do not recall which is technically the correct designation)

    The earlier 250 Europa is a very different car with the Lampredi-designed engine. It had 15" Borranis, RW2924 with 5.50-15 tires.
     
  3. Longstone Tyres

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    Oo I can easily get a bit lost in Ferrari Models.

    Borrani https://www.borrani.com/ferrari-wheels/250-europa.html as being 1953-54 with a 5"X16 RW3077 which i think ties up with an early '50s car. Is this the one that is a 250 GT Europa? I think being an early '50s car also makes it a Lampredi engined car.

    I looked at the models listed in back of ENzo magazine that seems to back that up.

    However i have now looked at Wikipedia which lists a 250 Europa as being 1953. then listing the 250 GT Europa as being Colombo engined and being 8" shorter wheel base. I must say 15" wheels sounds odd for a car of that period. I shall do some more research and see what we can come up with.
     
  4. Longstone Tyres

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    Ha Ha

    I have pumped Borrani for information and got this answer

    Me "
    Hi


    I’m trying to clarify the 250 Europa Model. It seems there were 2 models:-


    250 Europa 1953 Lampredi engine. Which apparently came with RW2924 which were 15” wheels (which seems odd for an early ‘50s car)


    Then apparently the 250 GT Europa came out in 1954 with a Colombo engine which had a 8” shorter wheel base and I think this would have been 16” RW3077.


    Could you clarify please"


    Here's the reply i got
    "Dougal,


    as far as my experience in the past for the early cars … it could be Rw2841 4.50x15 or after a while Rw2924 5kx15

    For the Colombo you’re correct those had 16” … more likely RW2977 4.50x16 and maybe later Rw3077


    Only with chassis number we can be more correct … Ferrari did lots of weird stuff … flipping different wheels & tyres in the same vehicles.


    Ciao,"

    Which something we come across. the further back you go with small volume cars, specially if they might have been special bodied, there is more variety of wheel and tyres fitted. But the joy of Ferrari is we can find out what they fitted with chassis numbers.

    interestingly if i look at one of my period insurance books it only lists the 250 Europa it doesn't mention the GT bit. but it says
    1953 - 250 - 5.90X15 or 5.50X16 front and 6.00X16 rear
    1954 - 250 6.40X15 or 6.00X16 & 250 Europa 7.40X15
    1955 - 250 Europa 6.00X16
    1956 - 250 Europa 6.00X16
    1957 - 250 Gran Turismo 6.00X16
    1958 - 250 Gran Turismo 6.00X16
    Bit vague really but it does point to the fact that like you say the earlier cars were on 15" wheels.

    Oo, just got a bit more input from Milan - Interestingly, although we currently list the RW3077 as the wheel for the 250 Europa. you are right, because the original drawing for this wheel wasn't drawn untill July 1954. so as you say it looks like RW3077 was the wheel for the 250 GT Europa. and the 1953 250 Europa would have fitted 15" wheels, which as you say and is corroborated by Borrani would have been RW2924 and possibly RW 2841.

    I will adjust our page accordingly and let you know when it iis done.
     
  5. Longstone Tyres

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    Oh while i think on. If anyone has any pictures or build sheets to back these up that would be great
     
  6. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    I have a copy of the build sheet for one of the 250 Europas. The chassis sheet specifies Pirelli 7.10-15 tires. I can also offer these pictures showing tires that were probably mounted at a time when more correct replacement tires were available for these cars. Thanks.

    john
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  7. Longstone Tyres

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    Hi John

    Do you know if this picture is with a 7.10X15?
     
  8. detective

    detective Rookie

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    With enhancement, text on tyre is 6.70 R16 X
     
  9. Longstone Tyres

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    I can read the top one and that is a 6.70 R16 X it is a radial hence the R and the X is the favorite letter of the Michelin tread naming department. (they also now make a tread pattern called SX MXX3. which we think is an over zealous use of the letter X) being the nerd i am i would recognize the X tread pattern at 100 paces. I might have it tattooed on my bum.

    I think the tyre in the picture below looks like a crossply tyre. but i don't recognize the tread.


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  10. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #10 miurasv, Jan 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  11. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2004
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    The 250 Europa/375 America original sales brochure (Merritt 119) shows tire size 7.10 x 15. Apologies, my previous post was mistaken from memory on the tire width – it should be 7.10. I believe the cream colored 250 Europa in John’s photo is 0351 EU. I post here pictures of the tires on that car, taken many years ago now - at the time they were period Stelvio 7.10 x 15. Regarding Borrani listings, the current Ferrari listings by Borrani are not to be trusted as fully accurate; they often miss the nuances between models and within a model. For example under the Pininfarina Coupe 1958 to 1960, they the list RW3526 (the wheel for disc brakes) and RW3598, the 400 mm wheel. They miss the fact that many drum brake Coupes came with RW3264.


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  12. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior

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  13. Longstone Tyres

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    thank you for the pictures.

    do you think those tyres were actually the tyres that the car left the factory on? or would they be a replacement set? I'm trying to work out if Stelvio were OE or the earlier Stella Bianca, which i am hoping to get my first delivery of today. https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/pirelli-collezione/pirelli-stella-bianca.html (not in that size though)

    I agree Borrani's published literature isn't all encompassing. However when we do need accurate detail about what is the correct wheel they are actually brilliant. and using chassis numbers can find out what is correct. As i find out little gems like this we are updating our Borrani.com web site and our Longstone web site. so this page of the web site will soon have some content on it explaining the nuances of this specific model https://www.borrani.com/ferrari-wheels/250-pininfarina-coupe.html

    As will this page https://www.borrani.com/ferrari-wheels/250-europa.html

    And for instance i have updated this page now https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres/ferrari/250-europa.html which should be more correct.

    the one thing we do have difficulty with, is pictures of very early bespoke cars like this. so we have put 2 pictures at the bottom of that web page and guessed which is a Europa and which is a GT Europa. Have we got it right? Does anyone have any pictures they are happy for us to use? (if so could you clarify weather it is a GT or not)
     
  14. Longstone Tyres

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