250 Ferrari GTO vs McLaren F1

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by 275GTBSaran, Oct 6, 2017.

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  1. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 Veteran
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    It actually is ELEVEN (11) people that own both (a 250 GTO and a McLaren F1). Not ten (10) as stated by me before (in post #16).

    Marcel Massini
     
  2. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 Veteran
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    Thirteen? I must have missed that! Are you sure? Chassis number please! Who? Where and when? Are you talking US Dollars?
    Details please.

    Marcel Massini
     
  3. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 Veteran
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    There is only ONE reason why classic Porsche prices recently "did better": Not so long ago, at one of the major auctions, a fresh (California based) billionaire attended and wanted to impress his friends and together they bought almost all of the Porsches in that auction, overbidding themselves like crazy. They just had a big party that auction night. Good for the auction company, of course. And then on Monday morning the rest of the world thought that all Porsches go up now.
    People are so stupid and follow like sheep.

    Marcel Massini
     
  4. ferrarip4

    ferrarip4 Formula 3
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    Sorry, Australian dollars (about $12.5 Million AUD), it's where I live... $10 million US, the one sold at Leggenda e Passione in September..
     
  5. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 Veteran
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    Oh well, apples and oranges.
    THAT was a LF APERTA (the open version, the 210th built) and all proceeds go to charity. For an American buyer it is tax deductible and easily explains the high price. In other countries this would not necessarily be tax deductible.
    This Maranello/Fiorano 9th September 2017 La Ferrari Aperta result means nothing in relation with the discussion here re 250 GTO and McLaren F1.

    Marcel Massini
     
  6. ferrarip4

    ferrarip4 Formula 3
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    Classic Porsche 911's have appreciated very much in the past few years...
    The 1970's RS models are in the $700K when they were at less than $200K 10 years ago
    The 959 are getting close to a million when they were in the $300K 10 years ago

    Even the modern limited editions are getting stupid prices:
    the 2016 911R cost $186K new, they are now around $500K
     
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  8. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 Veteran
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    As said, one CA-based new billionaire with way too much money burning holes in his pocket "made the market" lately.
    I personally know several billionaires who don't really care about 700 Grand.

    Marcel Massini
     
  9. 275GTBSaran

    275GTBSaran Formula Junior

    Mar 5, 2012
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    Marcel - please not one man can make the market for Porsche. That statement just not true. It always takes two to tango (meaning there was a bidder on the other line that was willing to pay mega bucks too). Porsche is drivable, exclusive, reliable and beautiful. The momentum is there for a very good reasons. 964 Turbo lightweights are now million pound cars. It is the new reality of younger buyers stepping into the collectors market and buying cars they can relate too.
     
  10. ferrarip4

    ferrarip4 Formula 3
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  11. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 Veteran
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    Edmond

    It was one man (Mr. J. K.) and his group of friends!
    Also, never forget the chandelier.
    Enjoy a wonderful weekend.

    Marcel Massini
     
  12. ferrarip4

    ferrarip4 Formula 3
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    I think you are misunderstanding. A few bidders don't make a market. The examples I've given have to do with general trends. you can see the trends here: http://www.conceptcarz.com/auction/trends.aspx?makeID=122

    Of course there are Porsche that will sell for millions: the 917 race car for example. But since they are a mass market brand unlike Ferrari, and make more cars in 1 year than the entire history of Ferrari, they won't generally command prices that F cars will.
     
  13. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
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    Mar 4, 2005
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    Please keep in mind that there is also a generic problem today.
    In 25+ years the GTO will become that for the current and future generation what the GTO is for our or the last generation. I assume that the GTO (and many other today classics) in 25+ years will be what the "Chitti-Chitti-Bang-Bang"-cars of the pre-1920 are for us.

    Times go by...
     
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  15. rjanot

    rjanot Karting

    May 5, 2009
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    11 !! I have only 9 in my records. Here are the 9 duos (...or trio or even quartet).
    03R and 4153GT
    10R and 3757GT
    23R, 052 and 3451GT
    LM3, 055, 074 and 3987GT
    XP4 and 3505GT
    011 and 5571GT
    013 and 3943GT
    023 and 4491GT
    038 and 4091GT

     
  16. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    The 250 GTO will always be priced higher than the F1. Anytime the F1 appreciates, the GTO will appreciate. The only F1 that will come close to a GTO is 01R (1995 LM winner) and even then it will probably be 1/2 the most valuable GTO.
     
  17. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    Does Sam Li have a 250 GTO? He has two F1 GTRs (21R and 24R).
     
  18. TurboTerrificNo9

    Sep 24, 2011
    46
    UK
     
  19. TurboTerrificNo9

    Sep 24, 2011
    46
    UK
    I don’t think it’s a given that the GTO will always be worth more than the F1.
    Firstly the F1 was such a massive leap forward over any other car in that era and will perform against almost everything made today - the GTO was undeniably the best around when it was launched and it’s legend has only grown, but IMHO it didn’t move the game forward as much as the F1.
    That coupled with the fact that many younger want to drive their cars more and are less interested in the older stuff.
    Who’d have thought that F1s would trade above Thr SWB?
     
  20. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    The F1 was really the only thing going on in the early to mid 1990s and had nothing to compete against. It was compared to the F40, which was designed a decade previously. The F1, which is a well designed car, had little to no competition put out by manufacturers for both the streets and racetrack.

    The FIA didn't have anything for it early in its racing career. The BPR Global Series was not a series with factory teams its first two years and more for wealthy individuals to race one another. In its final year (1996) and subsequent form as the FIA GT, Mercedes and Porsche introduced their cars and the F1 was done for. Even at the 1995 24 Hours of LeMans, the F1 didn't have any real competition. It was one of the weakest fields regardless of the weather conditions and pit decisions by the Courage Porsche.

    Don't get me wrong...the F1 is a great car and one of my favorites, but a lot of its history is based on being in the right place at the right time rather than being two decades ahead of competition. I still think the cars are inflated in value for multiple reasons, which I'm not interested in discussing.

    I'm still surprised the 911 GT1, CLK GTR, and CLK LMs are so ignored by comparison.
     
  21. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 Veteran
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    No. He does not have a 250 GTO.

    Marcel Massini
     
  22. TurboTerrificNo9

    Sep 24, 2011
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    UK
    [QUOTE

    I'm still surprised the 911 GT1, CLK GTR, and CLK LMs are so ignored by comparison.[/QUOTE]

    The cars you mention were designed for racing whereas the F1 was designed as a road car. It is a much better road car than the cars or its own era and many that came later.
     
  23. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    The cars you mention were designed for racing whereas the F1 was designed as a road car. It is a much better road car than the cars or its own era and many that came later.[/QUOTE]

    Sorry I wasn't clear with my post, but I was referring to the racing variants as the F1 GTRs are still applauded to this day whereas the 911 GT1 and CLK-LM are essentially ignored (there is 1 road variant only of each '98 model so I didn't include it as a road car comparison).

    As far as the F1 vs other supercars that have come along since then, it's a hard comparison given how few of the F1s are actually driven and publicly discussed. The current owner of Rowan Atkinson's F1 did talk about the car compared to more modern and pointed how much body roll and soft the car felt compared to modern cars. I'm not surprised as just watch a road F1 go around the track you can see how much it rolls given how high its ride height is vs more modern supercars.
     
  24. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    Dear Mr. Saran,
    I hope youl'll see that I might've been fairly accurate with my initial comment after all.
    This thread is veering further and further away from "Vintage" Ferraris.
    While exiting(?) perhaps to you and some others, I still think extended discussions about German cars, let alone more "modern" ones, on this particular forum section can be considered almost "inappropriate".
    I just wish moderators would be able to see this and move the thread accordingly.
     
  25. ferrarip4

    ferrarip4 Formula 3
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    One must not forget that the F1 is the only car in the modern era to have won Le Mans outright being based on a road car. I'm pretty sure that this Le Mans connection has a factor on their prices...
     
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  26. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

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    #49 Timmmmmmmmmmy, Oct 8, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
    I believe that the man behind the Lionshead West Collection owns a 250GTO #4675(?) and at least one McLaren F1 along with others. Fascinating story about the principals legal dramas AND the fact he was arguably the first big player in the classic car market from mainland china. Worth searching Fchat for more details.

    As for the rare Porsche 911 market, I would note that no cars have managed to match the prices seen at RM London 2016.
     
  27. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof Formula 3

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