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250 GT LWB California Spider Alloy

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by F40org, Sep 11, 2017.

  1. F40org

    F40org Formula Junior

    Feb 2, 2004
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    Rolando
    Sorry about my posting - I'm not 100% familiar with this car.

    If I'm right they built 9 of 50 cars with Alloy body.
    More and more I read from a competizione-Version. Do they mine the Alloy-cars or are there additional specials?

    I know only 8 Alloy cars

    1085GT
    1451GT
    1603GT
    1615GT
    1627GT
    1639GT
    1641GT
    1699GT
     
  2. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
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    Feb 16, 2004
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    Yes, 8 LWB Californias were built with Alloy bodywork. Some past sources have claimed 9 were made. That's because 1487 GT was mistakenly thought to have been Alloy, most likely because of its Pedro Rodriguez racing history.
     
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  3. F40org

    F40org Formula Junior

    Feb 2, 2004
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    1487GT has a steel body but it is also a competizione, right?
    Do you know how much competizione they built and where is the difference to the "normal" LWB California Spider?
     
  4. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    As Terra has said 1487GT was thought to be alloy because of its racing history but it's not a Competizione California Spider. I'd have thought the biggest differences between a Competizione version and a normal one would be the alloy body and the higher powered engine with 10mm lift on the camshafts rather than 9mm of the standard engine.

    1487GT was actually sold at Maranello in 2009. See here: http://www.rmsothebys.com/ff09/ferrari--leggenda-e-passione/lots/1959-ferrari-250gt-california-lwb/357458
     
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  5. ferrarip4

    ferrarip4 Formula 3

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    Pic of 1451GT, 5th overall (and 3rd in class but in Barchetta it says it won its class) at the 1959 Le Mans 24Hr driven by Bob Grossman & Fernand Tavano... Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  6. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    ...but it seems there were Alloy bodied Competizione cars that did not have tipo 130 camshafts with the 10mm lift but the 9mm lift of the standard engine and Steel bodied cars with velocity stacks that did have the tipo 130 camshafts with 10mm lift rather than the standard 9mm.
     
  7. GaetanVDK

    GaetanVDK Karting

    Oct 20, 2015
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    BRUSSELS, BELGIUM
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    GAETAN VDK
    Does anybody know the owner of 1615GT?
    (i think the car's in California with a South Korean owner)

    Can anybody put me in relation with him?

    Many thanks for time and help,
     
  8. Ferrari27

    Ferrari27 Formula Junior
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  9. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
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    #9 Terra, Feb 11, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
    Are you sure? When did 1487 GT lose it bumpers, alter the shape of its front grille surround (especially in the radii of its respective upper corners), and change color?
     
  10. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Terra: The photo is of 1487 in about 2003. It now has the bumpers back on the car and is dark blue, in Canada.
     
  11. Ferrari27

    Ferrari27 Formula Junior
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    Spot on Sir! I took the photograph on July 6 2003 at the UK FOC National Meet at Boughton House.
     
  12. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
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    Aha, during Stephen Pilkington’s ownership! I sold him the original engine block for it back in the day.
     
  13. 375+

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    s/n 1627 was crashed and rebodied in steel in the 1960's, does anyone know if it is back to alloy?
     
  14. Terra

    Terra Formula 3
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    It's back to Alloy. Still has no side vents just like when it was brand new. Currently owned by a very well-known current Formula One driver.
     
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  15. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    Thanks, do you know which restoration company did the bodywork?
     
  16. AUSWOODS

    AUSWOODS Rookie

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    Totally beautiful does anyone know if know if they had fibreglass or steel floor pans ?
     
  17. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    Fiberglass floor pans were introduced with the Long Nose 275 GTB and 330 GTC.
     
  18. 335s

    335s Formula Junior

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    I have to disagree-based on first hand, actual experience..
    The proto-tipo LWB comp-open headlight car-is a bit different than the others(it lived "up the street," and I inspected it closely, as we considered 'taking a run' at it(we owned one of the 4 :"Chinetti specials" already at the time). It is a "real" 1957 car...it is not the same as the others in a variety of ways which I'll not go into here...
    In 1977/78 I was involved with restoration of 1699-I know it WELL...
    Ironically, after a days work, I stopped by a local Ferrari independent shop which is quite famous here on the peninsula, and met the then new owner who was doing suspension work on: yup, an alloy LWB! Being a "kid" in those days, I had assumed that most were built this way(we were almost exclusively dealing with comp cars in that era), so ignorance was bliss! The owner of the shop was stunned that a young guy walked in-off the street-and knew so much about a car which turns out to be 1 of 4(there were to be 5, but the factory just palin buggered it up during construction, and forgot to put in the large capacity competition tanks with the outside Z"Monza" fuel filler cap-this car was Sherman Wolf's old car), but had just spent the day working on a sister car! He informed me how rare these cars were-THAT car was 1641-with a roll bar....
    In 2003,4,5 or so, I went to Finland to buy Jo Bamford's old Pale yellow Daytona Spyder. While there, in the garage was a LWB Cal Spy! The Monza cap caught my eye: within the year, we had gotten the car:1615 It had been a really special car above the "normal "Chinetti" specials: It had been pulled off the line for Count Volpi. The hood opening is larger than the others...We discovered this researching the car as it had sustained body damage from heat in a garage fire in an upholstery shop on LI, NY back in the 60s...Turns out that the body was mostly original, but had had the very top redone from the "droop" from the heat in the garage fire-no significant But in those days-who/what insurance company is gonna foot the bill for a 10-ish year old used car that was "melted" top sections of the body required real craftsmanship quality repairs to save the car/rest of the body? Not gonna happen-so it went through insurance auctions after paying off the owner...But there is more-it had a comp motor0-but NOT the original...THAT motor had been pulled by Volpi team at the ADAC 100 in 1960(???) and put into a comp SWB after IT had tossed a rod through the block-it turns out that the California was much faster in a line(power), but with the lever shocks and LWB, handled like a pig compared to the SWB-so they swapped the engine out and into this SWB: which then WON! To this day-AFIK-the engine still resides in this SWB.
    While we had it, we started to help a friend of ours to build a collection....We looked at 1603 several times-back and forth(it was tough-every time we looked hard, it was another million plus more money. Once it got to 60-ish it was: forget it! Which was stupid, as it is the pick of the ;litter hands down....IMO...IRONICALLY, one of this man's closest friends later got THIS very same car.... small world-HUH?
    They all share what we sort of call: wet sump TR engines with coil valve springs and three carbs-they all dyno around 273-275 HP on ALL the build sheets I've seen-and I saw them all, additionally, they ALL had tipo 130 camshafts, special valves, yadda yadda yadda, ALONG with alloy, ribbed gearboxes, to go along with the "ginormous" riveted competition fuel tanks with Monza caps...

    Chinetti had come up with a recipe for his NY area well to do "Boy Racers": these cars were one of the recipes...there were supposed to be FIVE identical cars, but the tank delete is the ONLY missing component from Wolfs car....They are different than pretty much ALL the others...I have restored them , rebuilt them, machined and fabbed parts for them, and driven-oddly-three of the 4-with the only one I have NOT driven being one which is garaged only a few miles from where I sit right now....1603

    ....another typical Ferrari vintage race car "story," from a guy who was a kid back then-but today, is NOW: "one of the Old Guys" ....

    I don't know much-but this much I do know...
     
  19. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    I think you mean ADAC 1000?

    great story to read
     
  20. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    2163GT is the Comp. 250 GT SWB Berlinetta that got 1615GT's tipo 168B engine. May I ask what you are disagreeing with?
     
  21. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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  22. Atombender

    Atombender Karting

    Apr 6, 2012
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    Somewhat unrelated but would a LWB California hardtop fit on a SWB California and vice versa?

    The only California Competizione I have seen with a hardtop is a 1961 SWB, 2383GT. Here it is with its original owner Ernst Lautenschläger behind the wheel at an airfield race, possibly Innsbruck.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  23. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Photo is from the Technical Museum in Vienna, Austria.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  24. Atombender

    Atombender Karting

    Apr 6, 2012
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    Would a SWB California hardtop fit onto a LWB California?
     

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