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250 GT SWB Identity FIA GT Brands Hatch June 1989 ?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by arttidesco, May 20, 2012.

  1. arttidesco

    arttidesco Karting

    Oct 6, 2010
    133
    Bristol
    Full Name:
    Ralph Colmar
    [​IMG]

    I've narrowed this 250 GT SWB photo down to most likely being taken at FIA GT meeting at Brands in June 1989, however even after looking at dozens of 250 GT SWB records on the Barchetta site I am no closer to identifying either the driver or chassis number, all I do no is that the race was won by Lindsay Owen-Jones driving a similar #2 car chassis #2021.

    Can any one identify either the driver or car in my photo ?

    Relevant answers maybe credited and used in a forthcoming blog.

    Thanking you in anticipation of your responses.
     
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  3. Terra

    Terra F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2004
    2,653
    Are you sure the photo was taken at the June 1989 FIA GT Brands Hatch meeting?

    I think the car in the photo IS in actuality 2021 GT.
     
  4. arttidesco

    arttidesco Karting

    Oct 6, 2010
    133
    Bristol
    Full Name:
    Ralph Colmar
    There is no doubt about the venue, and I am fairly certain of the date, the Lindsay Owen-Jones chassis #2021 entry is listed on Barchetta as being entry #1.

    A friend has just looked up Autosport and confirmed there was a second 250 GT SWB in the race being driven by Violati (Stefano ?), who is shown as having driven #2021 in '95 in the Barchetta record.

    Any further help with the identity of the #2 in the photo above would be much appreciated :)
     
  5. DAYTONASME

    DAYTONASME Formula Junior

    Jan 12, 2007
    646
    Manchester UK
    Full Name:
    DAYTONASME
    IMO - the photo is of Stefano Violati (bright red helmet) who competed alongside Lyndsay Owen Jones (who in turn often shared with Peter Hannen), as part of a two car (250SWB) team prepared by the above, supported by a well-used race transporter. I remember seeing this equipe at Silverstone, but couldn't say if this photo was taken at Brands Hatch...

    E
     
  6. arttidesco

    arttidesco Karting

    Oct 6, 2010
    133
    Bristol
    Full Name:
    Ralph Colmar
    Thanks for ID ing Stephano's helmet Daytonasme.

    The photo was taken at Surtees Bend / formerly South Bank, at Brands, it's the one thing I am sure of having taken many photo's their in the late 1980's.
     
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  8. arttidesco

    arttidesco Karting

    Oct 6, 2010
    133
    Bristol
    Full Name:
    Ralph Colmar
    I have trawled through the Barchetta pages again and found a possible candidate for the #1 in my photo namely #2443.

    http://www.barchetta.cc/english/all.ferraris/detail/2443gt.250gt.htm

    However the door shape does not look quite right, can anyone tell me when the kinked top rail of the SWB door appeared or disappeared, this information might lead me to the car ID I am looking for.

    For the same reason I believe #2021 as suggested by Terra

    http://www.barchetta.cc/english/all.ferraris/detail/2021gt.250gt.htm

    can also be eliminated as the car I photographed at Brands

    http://s5.postimage.org/557dfyr3b/89...IA_GT_BHsc.jpg
     
  9. arttidesco

    arttidesco Karting

    Oct 6, 2010
    133
    Bristol
    Full Name:
    Ralph Colmar
  10. Terra

    Terra F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2004
    2,653
    #8 Terra, May 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    What a small world!

    I've twice sold 250 GT SWB Competizione #1953 GT.

    The first time I sold it, the installed engine was from a 250 GT Lusso, with Numero Interno 1780/62 E. Although the Engine No. pad/boss was crudely restamped to read "1953," it really was born as 250 GT Lusso #5221.

    Several years later, I was able to purchase the original engine for 250 GT SWB Competizione #2025 GT (with Numero Interno 430 F). For many, many years, Engine No. 2025 GT coincidentally lived in yet another Lusso, #4383!

    A little history regarding Engine No. 2025 GT:

    At some point, Engine No. 2025 GT was removed from Lusso #4383. Someone had poorly restamped it as "2025" (WITHOUT the "GT" suffix). This most probably happened because its original "2025 GT" stamping got inadvertently ground off when the block was decked (machined) during a rebuild.

    The then-owner of Engine No. 2025 GT sent the complete motor to Ferrari Classiche. Classiche then verified that the 430 F Numero Interno stamping into the rough casting was original and unaltered. Being satisfied that this was the ONE AND ONLY 2025 GT engine, Classiche then restamped the Engine No. characters (now including the "GT" suffix), with factory original period stamping tools. At the same time, they applied their "Classiche" insignia just to the right of the new Engine No. stamping.

    I then arranged for Engine No. 2025 GT to be installed into SWB Comp. #1953 GT. The ORIGINAL engine for SWB Comp. #1953 GT lives in SWB Comp. #1807 GT. However, because the current owner of 1807 GT has not been receptive to either selling Engine No. 1953 GT outright or fashioning some swap with Engine No. 2025 GT, the next best option was to have Engine No. 2025 GT installed into SWB Comp. #1953 GT, which I duly arranged.

    Sorry for the complicated story!
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  11. arttidesco

    arttidesco Karting

    Oct 6, 2010
    133
    Bristol
    Full Name:
    Ralph Colmar
    No need to apologise, it's great to have these details on record and with such fine photographic evidence.

    I've added PS with a link to your comments on my original post.
     
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  13. bertrand59

    bertrand59 Guest

    Jun 13, 2011
    126
    Lille, france
    Full Name:
    bertrand
    Thanks for sharing

    I have noticed that Bonhams Sold in 2007 at Monaco GTL s/n 43"6"3GT with this comment :

    " After an accident in 1976, the 250GT SWB, chassis # 2025GT went to Pierre de Siebenthal in Switzerland. It was here that #4363GT received the engine from the #2025GT. In 1976, #4363 was sold to a Swiss who kept the car until 2004. On the 1st December 2004, Ferrari Nyon successfully applied for a Certificate of Origin from Ferrari which confirms that this Lusso #4363 is equipped with engine number #2025. "

    What do you think ?
     
  14. Terra

    Terra F1 Rookie
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    Feb 16, 2004
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    True.

    Engine No. 2025 GT came out that very Lusso (4363).
     
  15. Terra

    Terra F1 Rookie
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    Feb 16, 2004
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    #12 Terra, May 28, 2012
    Last edited: May 28, 2012
    Oops, my bad! In my earlier post (Post No. 8, 25 May), I cited the Serial No. of the Lusso (which had Engine No. 2025 GT), as being 4383. That was a typo -- I meant to type 4363. Sorry for the confusion!
     

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