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250 GT SWB 'revival'

Discussion in 'Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies' started by DanNE, Feb 17, 2019.

  1. DanNE

    DanNE Formula Junior
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  3. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Google GTO Engineering SWB. Mostly fabricated from the ground up although some do have a real Ferrari V12.
     
  4. DanNE

    DanNE Formula Junior
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    Very cool, what do those things go for usually? I see the one in the US is $1M ask, sounds a bit high?
     
  5. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli F1 Rookie
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    Read the description CAREFULLY!

     
  6. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    They are asking $1.4m. A new one goes for around $700k/$800k i think depending on the options and whether or not you provide a real Ferrari sn/identity. Build takes a year so that might explain why they are asking almost 2x the msrp...
     
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  8. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli F1 Rookie
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    So, what engine does this car have? Transmission?
    I've never seen a 3.5 liter V-12 - no engine photos.
    A number of items in the description do not make sense to me.











    t
     
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  9. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    It's built by GTO Engineering. You can upgrade the 3.0 (built to match the real 3.0 V12) to higher specs.

    They restored and maintain many real SWB so they have the blueprints and knowledge. But it's not a Ferrari part.
     
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  10. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    1563 GT was originally a 250 GT Coupé Pinin Farina, painted white with black interior, and sold new through Johnny Von Neumann's Ferrari Representatives of Hollywood, CA/USA.

    Another genuine Ferrari lost. Another tragedy.

    Marcel Massini
     
  11. 09Scuderia

    09Scuderia Formula 3

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    anyone have any real info on the values of these cars? Do they hold their value, depreciate or increase in value? I am very interested and the all in price with everything period correct is around $1m...24 month build time.
     
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  13. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Manhattan Motor Cars has had these 2 for sale for months if not year. And they are not moving:

    https://www.manhattanmotorcars.com/used-vehicles/?_dFR%5Bmake%5D%5B0%5D=Ferrari&_dFR%5Btype%5D%5B0%5D=Used&_dFR%5Btype%5D%5B1%5D=Certified%2520Used&_paymentType=our_price

    There are no details on these 2 (which chassis was used, spec of the engine etc.).

    I dont see them dropping a whole lot if at all. But asking 40% markup is proving to be a pipe dream.
     
  14. fiatosca

    fiatosca Karting
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    Am I the only one who's tired of seeing these GTO Engineering replicas? If I were to spend $1mil + for a fake (which I would not), I would at least expect it to look like the real thing.
     
  15. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    And THAT is exactly HOW they get thru, legally! By NOT exactly replicating the bodywork of a genuine SWB Berlinetta (which is copyrighted by factory!).
    They use the front of a 59, the center of a 60 and the rear of a 61 or 62 model, or vice versa. And by doing so, they can claim that it is not exactly the original bodywork and that's how they don't run into copyright problems. A very smart and/or clever way? At least this is what was explained to me personally when I asked HOW they get thru.

    Marcel Massini
     
  16. fiatosca

    fiatosca Karting
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    If they can build a car from scratch and convince someone to pay big money for it through this legal loophole, well good for them I guess. However, placing this Frankenstein body over an authentic Ferrari chassis/engine is unforgivable.
     
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  17. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

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  18. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    #15 Marcel Massini, Apr 15, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2021
    We just had a case of such a GTO built SWB replica that came into Switzerland, was somehow sold as a real one, and when the new owner tried to register it, the Swiss authorities started scratching their heads and stopped everything. That serial number (out of a 250 GT PF Coupé) has now been blacklisted for the entire Swiss country. In the meantime the Swiss State Attorney has a lot of work, the Swiss police seized the car, once released it was kicked out of Switzerland and is supposedly back in the UK. Factory personnel inspected the fake as well in Switzerland and they are fully aware of the case and the things done.
    All I say is not good, not good. And yes, I know the serial number involved.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  19. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
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    I have wondered how Ferrari has viewed this.

    I wouldn’t say it is “blessed” by Ferrari, but it is not the normal Ferrari reaction to shut things down. Ferrari has plenty of lawyers with lots of willingness to pursue what Ferrari is unhappy about.

    GTO Engineering obviously treads a fine line, but they supply so many other vintage things, I think Ferrari and GTO have to have some type of informal agreement at a minimum.

    There have also been TR built vehicles, and I am sure others that haven’t been well documented publicly.

    Does anyone here have one of these or in the process of obtaining one!

    Shawn
     
  20. 09Scuderia

    09Scuderia Formula 3

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    their product looks exceptional. I went down the rabbit hole and discovered that there are many who have made small batches of 250gt SWBs. Contact Fantasy Junction...within 24 hours they shared with me 2-3 cars they knew about for a potential sale. Point being, if I do buy one of these there will be a ton of needed research to do first. Thus, I am back focused on modern stuff. 458SA and a 512TDF.
     
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  21. -K1-

    -K1- Formula Junior

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    Legally the basis is that of Singer, which is a customer brings their own car to a ‘restoration’ firm who then modifies the car. I have that in writing from Singer’s original IP lawyer as it relates to reproduction Ferrari. The devil is in the detail and the shop in question needs to be rather careful in how they manage it. It’s no different to putting wide wheels, modifying the engine and adding bucket seats into the car in principle. It is obviously a minefield which is why I suspect GTO is considering making their own branded car. For my money I would rather have a real Daytona and a real Dino for the same money. The GTO cars are wonderful things and I would be seriously tempted but ultimately not.
     
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  22. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

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    Although Singer have had their own run in with Porsche recently as their off road ACS thing was unveilled with the word Porsche splashed all over it. Now all reference to it has disappeared from their website apparently due to a complaint from Porsche themselves.

    https://uk.motor1.com/news/493068/porsche-protests-singer-acs-design/
     
  23. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

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    Not lost, the corpse will either still be with the owner of the VIN used in the swb repro, or sat in a barn in deepest Wales with all the other lost soul donors. Not an ounce of the donor is used, just its essence! oh and its VIN number on a nice new plaque.

    I looked over one of the brand new bare chassis on the back of a trailer, fresh from the fabricator a while back, lovely piece of kit.
     
  24. NunoRosso

    NunoRosso Karting

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    I don't get these kind of cars. It's like picking an original, less valuable drawing of an artist and hiring a restorer to "transform" it into a masterpiece - a fake one, that is.

    I wish I was fortunate enough to acquire an undesirable - yet original - 250 GT or GTE. I think there's no shame at all in owning a vintage, real Ferrari.

    I would kind of understand this replica/recreation ordeal IF the owner has a real car and wants a replica to drive in vintage races but never at the expense of a real, classic car. If they can afford multi-million currency cars, they can probably build a replica without harming existing, fully-operational cars.
     
  25. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

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    They don't use an example that could otherwise be restored, they are too far gone for that, examples of which would in the past have simply been parts cars, so lost regardless.

    Lots of people don't get it, but some do, hence why they exist, and to rave reviews.
     
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  26. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

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    At some point either they will run out of "cars that can't be restored", or will change their views about "not being restorable" to include cars that could very well be kept original. It's very troubling to me that these are getting as much press as they are because it seems like a second (thrid? fourth?) wave of destroying original "lesser" carls like the 250 GTE, 330 2+2, 250 PF, in order to make an ersatz toy for people who seem more appreciative of 3rd party opinion than they are of history.
     
  27. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

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    I was told by a former GTO employee that only a tiny part of the original chassis with the original number is used so in theory they could build one based on any Ferrari except the modern alloy tub and carbon fibre cars (not that there would be demand to build one on an Enzo/F50 / LaF chassis anyway). The only limitation is the local safety and emission laws related to the age of the donor car. I would not be surprised to see one of these on a 308 chassis number.
     
  28. mechaniker

    mechaniker Formula Junior
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    I think, there is one build around the papers of an 348... But otehrs might know better...
     

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