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250 GTE vs Maserati 3500

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by dsd, Dec 8, 2007.

  1. 246tasman

    246tasman Formula 3

    Jun 21, 2007
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    Will Tomkins
    #26 246tasman, Jan 8, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I know it's off topic, but as far as Lambos go I'd go for the Islero. All independent suspension, 4 cam 4 litre V12, 5 speed, 2+2, prettier to me than the Jarama, although more expensive, and a really great driving car better than 250GTE & the Maserati 6 cyls's. I agree that the Jarama is good value for money though.
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  3. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
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    Vince V
    I completely agree with that statement - the Islero "S" is far more desireable and a better investment. However, since only 70-ish were made (72?), they are getting pricey. Even the basic model is a good bet. Investors have not yet discovered the lowly Jarama "S" and I wonder just how much it takes to get a good one now since you never see them at auctions.

    Back on thread - the 3500 Sebring II is a better choice, but you have to remember that these cars were never worth much so they generally have big deferred maintenance issues. Luckily the 4.0 liter engines were widely used in Maseratis of this era and many body parts are 3500. Still, there are enough series' specific parts to cause concern.

    I was looking for the best model I could afford to buy and I am still looking. Stay away from that occasional eBay listing of a Series I car in Monterey that is a total basket case. The cost of restoration will exceed the value by multiples.
     
  4. dsd

    dsd F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Nov 19, 2006
    3,862
    Northern Virginia
    I think the 3500 has taken the lead. Every time I see one my jaw just drops.

    That red one (above) is amazing!

    -dsd
     
  5. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
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    James K. Woods
    It is very pretty; to me, the Mistral Coupe always seems like a forgotten classic too. I guess Spiders are out of the budget now, like the Ghiblis.
     
  6. yale

    yale Formula Junior

    May 2, 2004
    735
    New York City

    The red one above is a Sebring. Since we are on a Ferrari forum, might I bring up that part of the ownership experience is the camaraderie one finds aligned with each marque. For instance, hang around some Lambo folks and see how well you fit in with a pre 70's car. You will almost never see a '60's car like the Islero, (and I like these too), so finding info and parts....

    As for Maserati's, how many people sell parts for these cars as well, pretty much just MIE. Not that older Ferrari parts are easy to find or that affordable. It's even harder with these cars.

    Yale
     
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  8. AndruetBiche

    AndruetBiche Formula Junior

    Oct 7, 2006
    427
    I had an Islero S once - BTW sold it to an american who had the one and only Lambo engined P538. The "S" went well enough - I couldn't feel any big improvement over the standard Islero. IMHO it lacked soul and character plus had rather poor steering and brakes. It had good potential but you got the feeling that Ferrrucio had moved on and wasn't interested in refining it further.
     
  9. Bill P

    Bill P Karting

    Jan 27, 2004
    65
    Prescott AZ
    Full Name:
    William D. Preston
    dsd:

    Send an email to me at:

    250 GTE Register & Newsletter
    3119 Rainbow Ridge Drive
    Prescott AZ 86303

    and I will send you a free copy of the 250 GTE Newsletter. It will help you with prices, cars being advertised, etc.

    Bill Preston
    Editor
     
  10. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
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    Vince V
    Yale you hit the nail right on the head as to why I have not added a Sebring to my garage. There is virtually no support group in my area for Maseratis - no clubs, no dealers, no shops, no enthusiats, zip - and what's the fun in being a solo owner? How many Maserati owners can you get together or a Cars & Coffee run? Or some other run? Next the parts suppliers are, well, limited and I am not really fond of having to deal with a single source, MIE.

    And Andru, I bought my 355 wheels from a former owner of an Islero "S" which now resides with a collector in the San Diego area. He loved the car and drove the wheels off it (so he says). My impression is that it was a great cruiser and better built than the base model, in his opinion. Still, it's always good to have another opinion. I like the fact that the engines are fairly common through the Lambo line, making parts more readily obtainable.
     
  11. yale

    yale Formula Junior

    May 2, 2004
    735
    New York City
    Yes, I really like all the four seat exotics of the '60's so I paid a lot of attention to Maseratis, Aston Martins and Lambos of the period at shows and the like. I noticed that the Lambo community at places like Concorso was accoutered by ridiculously beautiful Lambo factory girls with ridiculous official Lambo branded clothing. There at times were one or two older cars, but for the most part who was there were guys you wouldn't have talked to in high school, (wearing that patented -I! have! a! Lamborghini!- clothing.)

    The Maserati guys I talked to were moaning about finding parts like engine bearings and trading information about what Ford part might fit if adjusted correctly. And my friend who edits the Aston Martin Club newsletter tells me the costs for an Aston "are, you know, the same as with a Ferrari," and then goes on to say an engine rebuild is $40,000 and a trans rebuild is $15,000!

    So I at one point thought about a DB4, or an Islero or Mexico but realized there was a whole element (like this Vintage Section) that would be missing from those marques.

    Yale
     
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  13. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

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    Kind of like the Viper club, IMO. :p BTW, at Concorso, I thought I saw Kiefer Sutherland driving a silver gray Murci. Also, the Lambo guys do a run up from SoCal to Monterey for the event and it's a parade of these exact ppl - new money that craves to be shown off. We have those ppl in the Ferrari Club too, but at least there are far more enthusiasts than billboards.
     
  14. 246tasman

    246tasman Formula 3

    Jun 21, 2007
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    Will Tomkins
    There are no major problems keeping any of these cars running nowadays. Used spares are fairly plentiful and the cost of making new parts is getting better.
     
  15. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

    Apr 18, 2004
    2,770
    Hershey, PA
    There is so much misinformation in this thread I don't know where to start.

    Ok 1st the Maserati Sebring did not offer a 4.0 engine. It was available with a 3.5 or 3.7. It was the Mistral that had either a 3.7 or 4.0. The Mistral is overall the best car of the 6 cylinder Maseratis, however the the hatchback style rear is not loved by everyone. There are two Maserati Clubs that are increasing working together and may eventually merge. Much like Ferrari owners the Vintage owners and the modern car owners don't mix that much. There is a somewhat active on-line owners group through yahoo. Be aware that the group was started by and is used as a marketing tool for a Maserati parts supplier (not MIE). But the discussions cover all the GT era cars.

    On the Lamborghini Islero they made 225 cars, around 125 Series 1 and 100 S models. There is a very active on line community in the Vintage Lamborghini Garage through yahoo which covers all the early GT cars through the Countach & Jalpa. Also be aware that the above mentioned parts supplier is active on the VLG. However the moderators do keep him in check as they do everyone. Probably the best moderators in any car forum. There are 2 Lamborghini Clubs, but they are that in name only and not that viable. Again the vintage owners don't mix as much with modern owers. Remember that from their 1st car in 1963 through the entire Diablo production cycle less than 10,000 Lamborghinis were built. On a side note, the Factory is very welcoming of all Lamborghini owners and active at the major events in North America.


    Joe
    Islero # 6243
    Mistral # 1216 (NY Show Car)
    Ghibli SS # 2110
    Khamsin # 1226 ( Car & Driver Test Car)
    Bora # 1046 (Next to Last Production car)
    Lele Marlboro # 184 (Geneva Show Car)
    Mondial Cab # 49713
    Laforza # 159
     
  16. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    7,987
    #38 wbaeumer, Jan 10, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Joeeeeee,
    you are totally W R O N G!!! The Sebring also came with a 4.0-engine. This was only in the II.Series (with double headlamps in one unit!). This cars have the chassis-number-indication "A10" like AM101.A10.663 (this car came new to France via THEPENIER in Paris and was clearly a 4.0-Liter car, stated in the THEPENIER-files which survived!). Here comes a photo of #101.A10.295, a 4.0-Liter car!

    Ciao!
    Walter
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  17. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

    Apr 18, 2004
    2,770
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    Walter,
    I stand corrected you are right, I forgot about that short overlap at that the end of the Sebring Sll production when it crossed with the Mistral. If I remember correctly there are only about a dozen or so cars fitted with the 4.0 Liter engines. Kind of like Ghibli SS Spyder 5 speeds.

    Joe
     
  18. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran

    Aug 4, 2006
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    Joe, except for the Lele and Laforza, you're my hero. :D

    I believe there are more than 240 Series II Sebrings and there was an overlap in Series I and II production. Remeber that some of these cars came with carbs and some with Lucas (!) injection (some which were converted to carbs).
     
  19. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    7,987
    Joe,
    nope! There were more than a dozen of the 4.0-liter cars! They are bloody quick and outclassed most of the GT-Ferraris at that time.

    But the 4.0-liter Mistral was the masterwork. It was again lighter and had got a suspension development.

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  20. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

    Apr 18, 2004
    2,770
    Hershey, PA
    Not a regular Lele. Mine is the 1st (of 2) Works Marlboro cars and the '73 Geneva Show Car. Two cars were modified by Bizzarrini under commision from Phillip Morris and given to Iso Marlboro Formula One Drivers Howden Ganley and Nani Galli. Mine # 184 is the Ganley car. Iso also made at least 2 replicas which were sold the the General Public (more civilized).

    As far as the Laforza is concerned, its a neat vehicle (Big) that was ahead of its time and underfunded. Kind of like an Italian Hummer, what is intersesting is you can see a number of big manufacturers (Land Rover, Nissan) copied the styling of the Laforza. BTW I am friends with its designer, Tom Tjaarda of Fiat 124, DeTomaso Pantera & Ferrari 330 2 + 2 fame.

    Joe
     
  21. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

    Apr 18, 2004
    2,770
    Hershey, PA
    You sure about that many? They only built less than 100 Series ll and the 4.0 liter didn't come out until maybe the last year, year half of its production cycle. Here is one for you I had one person tell me a few years back that they had an early Mistral with a 3.5. BTW My Mistral is 4.0 with Borranis and AC, an unmolested car that still has the Fuel Injection.

    Joe
     
  22. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    7,987
    Joe, I have in my register now 43 cars fittedd with the 4.0-Liter listed!

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  23. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

    Apr 18, 2004
    2,770
    Hershey, PA
    That is almost half the production of Sebring ll!
     
  24. marcflorie

    marcflorie Rookie

    Jul 10, 2008
    16
    Netherlands
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    Marc Florie
    Hello there, since I myself like a 6-cylinder better than a high-rev 12, and my 3500GTI is a real wonderful car, I ask that if you decide not to use the 3500GTI engine, you can let me know on marcflorie@kpnplanet.nl.
    Thanks in advance
     
  25. 246tasman

    246tasman Formula 3

    Jun 21, 2007
    1,430
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    Will Tomkins
    Hi! Welcome to FChat.

    I have just sold the GTE rolling chassis as I've now bought a complete GTE, so the engine may be available. I'll email you later.
     

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