News

250 GTO s/n 3387

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by flavioleon, Dec 10, 2017.

  1. Ferrari27

    Ferrari27 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 5, 2010
    636
    Solihull, UK
    Full Name:
    Robert
    Unless the car has been purchased by a football (soccer) player it is unlikely that the new owner will make a big deal about this on social media, or anywhere else for that matter. I am a little curious about who purchased the Mercedes Benz W196 at the Goodwood auction in 2013 (yes 2013!) but only a little and could have a sensible guess. Perhaps I have missed who the owner of the W196 is but it does not really matter. The owners of these cars will be known one day, or they will not. If someone wants to keep something like this a secret, they will. It is not a secret though: lots of people will know but not the people who are likely to tell us.

    Patience young Grasshopper!
     
  2. tifoso2728

    tifoso2728 F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Apr 30, 2014
    8,187
    IL
    Full Name:
    DRM
    Curiosity is natural. What do people talk about? People . . . .

    Of course privacy is to be respected. But the questions that are asked on this forum are completely natural.
     
    Lusso123 likes this.
  3. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    10,540
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
  4. Collesano

    Collesano Rookie

    Jan 14, 2017
    21
    England UK
  5. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    26,835
    Paris / Chicago
    Full Name:
    Andrew Menasce
    Wait are they really arguing over who will pay the $500k on a $44m deal?
     
    SonomaRik and carguyjohn350 like this.
  6. Shahaf

    Shahaf Rookie

    Jan 23, 2019
    32
    Full Name:
    Shahaf Galil
    Interesting story, even more interesting is the nature of men.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     
    carguyjohn350 likes this.
  7. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    7,720
    SonomaRik, Timmmmmmmmmmy and Bryanp like this.
  8. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    10,540
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
    No they might have been arguing over just the cost of shipping the original gearbox to the UK and then it accelerated to claim & counter-claim.......
     
  9. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    7,720
    ...even more GaGa!
     
    Timmmmmmmmmmy likes this.
  10. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 5, 2010
    2,063
    NZ
    Full Name:
    Timothy Russell
    Bernie Carl has been known to collect and deal in Ferrari's over the years while Fiskens are one of the top five classic car dealers with Tradex, Lukas Huni, Kidston and Talacrest. No court action will ever endear either of them to the top end collectors who love their privacy and rely on trust. That said I do understand that Fiskens was asking Carl to find a gearbox that may have been lost so needed opaque language in case it proved impossible but there should still have been specific wording saying to take all actions possible to recover and supply and a legal test for what that looks like. Without that who knows what the process should be.
     
  11. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    2,702
    France
    Beyond money my guess is that at these levels the egos are deeply involved - high profile people commonly have huge egos (not judging, that's part of what made them successful, typically)...
     
  12. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 6, 2004
    13,637
    ON
    Full Name:
    CH
    More like $25k to release the transmission plus shipping costs to where ever the GTO is currently located. Before the court got involved!
    Why the transmission was not with the car is not clear. Was the American dealer repairing the transmission? Did Mr Carl own the transmission himself or did he have to find it from a previous owner of his car?
    Mr Carl should have paid the cost to get possession of the transmission if he did not already own it. The delivery and shipping cost to where ever the GTO is now located doesn't seem to have been clearly defined...
     
  13. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    7,180
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    #38 miurasv, Dec 12, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
    So what gearbox does 3387 have in it now?

    Is it actually unique and special, as is stated about it, other than it belongs to, and is 250 GTO 3387GT's original gearbox?
     
    carguyjohn350 and of2worlds like this.
  14. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    13,010
    I understand the car has been factory red book certified in 2019.

    Marcel Massini
     
    of2worlds likes this.
  15. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    7,180
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    In that case, 3387GT should have a correct (tipo 508G/803?) gearbox installed.
     
  16. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 6, 2008
    5,571
    southwest germany
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    for money you will get what you like/want
     
  17. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

    Aug 22, 2008
    1,625
    New York City
    Full Name:
    Dave Powers
    First you get the money. Then you get the power. Then you get the gearbox. :D:p:cool:
     
    of2worlds, ChipG, TTR and 2 others like this.
  18. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    2,065
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    Fixed it for you.
    Yet, just because something has a (manufacturer) "certification" doesn't necessarily make it authentic or even correct.
     
    lgs, Terra, Nembo1777 and 1 other person like this.
  19. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2005
    6,332
    There is a bit more to this scene if I remember correctly?
     
    readplays likes this.
  20. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    7,180
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    #45 miurasv, Dec 13, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
    3387GT may well have just had its original gearbox swapped out for a correct tipo rebuilt gearbox from another GTO to keep it running and racing, as happened with other GTOs.

    The GTO that is claimed to have sold for just under $70 million, 4153GT, is just one example that doesn't (or didn't?) have its original gearbox or rear axle.
     
  21. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 6, 2008
    5,571
    southwest germany
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    but when it is not original why then get a red book???
     
    readplays likes this.
  22. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
    7,180
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    #47 miurasv, Dec 14, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
    A Ferrari does not need to have its original major parts such as the engine, gearbox and axle. They must however be the correct tipo but the Classiche book will say they have been replaced where that is the case.

    If the body has been replaced it must match the specification of the original and the Classiche book indicates if it has been repaired and/or replaced.

    In the case of the chassis, if it has been repaired or replaced, it must have the original chassis plate and the work done by the original chassis maker to get the book, I believe, and this will be indicated in the Classiche book, where that is the case.

    A Classiche book, whether Red or White, has qualified determinations.
     
  23. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    13,010
    A "white" book no longer exists. This now is also red but has a thin white stripe to make it look better and more "reddish" (and less white).
    Small but important "improvement" so that the really stupid people don't realize the difference.

    Marcel Massini
     
  24. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    2,065
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    LOL !! :rolleyes:
     
  25. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 5, 2010
    2,063
    NZ
    Full Name:
    Timothy Russell
    Oh but my new replica has a classiche red book they will cry. And how. I wonder when Ferrari will do an Aston Martin/ Jaguar and start building their own genuine fakes. Kind of like a knock off Louis Vuitton but several million euros dearer thanks to an authentic badge.
     
    LVP488 and turbo-joe like this.

Share This Page