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250 LM at Auction - s/n 6045

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by davebuchner, Jun 20, 2014.

  1. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Here's the one and only correct and genuine 6045 chassis tag with the additional Ferrari Classiche tag welded on on the far right.

    Marcel Massini

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  3. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #402 miurasv, Jan 21, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
    On 5975 all the gauges are different to the Veglia gauges on other 250 LMs and it looks like it has a speedo with odometer?
     
  4. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

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    Good spot. It is tantalizing to see it lying there.
    In theory one should be able to unscrew the bezel thus releasing the gauge, then back the gauge body out and drop it down below dash, reattach and reverse sequence to reinstall. In theory.
     
  5. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie
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    $15 million or so, plus/minus a couple thousand to reattach the gauge needle. I think they’ll negotiate through that point.
     
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  6. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    If you only knew...
     
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  8. Ryan S.

    Ryan S. Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Saw it today. Beautiful in every way.
     
  9. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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  10. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
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    It's an all new works-replica built in 2012/13 from Classiche around the original chassis tag and certified with a falsified date of production. Gorgeous creation for sure but no period product. Since 2014 much supported from the real experts and a chandelier auction to please the US-market and create value. And here we are again.
     
  11. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Pisses me off a little bit, in process getting my 355 Challenge certified and they are complaining about an updated racing seat to meet current club racing regulations. :mad:
     
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  13. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Educate me. Why are you getting a race car certified?


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  14. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    same reasons as any Ferrari mentioned here, value to sell.
     
  15. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    Do you have the original seats?

    Snip from the Classiche Criteria:
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  16. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    yes, after they mentioned that we sent them picture of the seat, which is now on my racing simulator.
     
  17. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    Shouldn't be a problem to get the Red Book then but it will probably mention the non original seat as a qualification. For the purposes of the certification it may be best to have re-installed the original seat.

    Though now you have sent the picture of the original seat they may include it in the Red Book.
     
  18. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Still blows my mind struggles with my car vs. all these other cars including 6045 that have been approved. Ignorance, money, or both?
     
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  19. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #416 miurasv, Jan 26, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
    I don't think Ferrari can be blamed for questioning the seat if it is non original. After all, the Classiche Certificate of Authenticity is to determine that the car is as original in specification.
     
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  20. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    no, I'm not questioning my car and the seat, I'm questioning all the other cars they have approved from burnt ashes, entire missing engines & chassis, and just general bitsa's.
     
  21. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Rookie
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    I hear these references occasionally, but I can’t say I’ve ever seen evidence of them. As for 6045, there are those that refute its legitimacy, but there are also very credible and respected authorities that validate the credibility of the car. I think it’s important to keep two things in mind:

    - It is very common for competition cars from the 50’s and 60’s to have had a lot of work done on them. Many, if not most, have been parsed together over time. But, when the “bones” are still present (i.e., the chassis), it would seem that it’s still regarded as credible.

    - If the correct chassis is the framework, than most everything else can be restored, replaced, and still be regarded as credible as long as the parts and components are original/restored and correct reproductions.

    If I mis-characterized things please contribute your thoughts.
     
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  22. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

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    Perhaps if you would have cut them in on some Fchat lira, things might have gone more smoothly. :D
     
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  23. rob lay

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    Then should be no issues my car.
     
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  24. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

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    Totally agree, an interesting point to ponder is that any car that raced is no longer entirely original and any original car cannot have raced. And the whole, entire point of competition Ferrari's is their race history. Ergo, its all about what percentage of the original is left. One of our erstwhile colleagues worked on many of the 1960s P cars and notes that none are truly original, that doesn't stop them being incredibly desirable, does it....... Case in point, two 250LM in highly original form have sold for mega bucks in recent years, #6107 and #6105 but they both have only very minor race histories on both sides of the pond and lack the desirability of the ex Le Mans cars that were raced hard and put away wet.
     
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  25. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    "Ferrari Classiche ("Ferrari") hereby certifies that, subject to the qualifications as outlined in the enclosed technical file, if any, the following car (the "Car") is authentic."

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  26. Roger Johnson

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    When I was in High School circa 1965 there was an ad in Road & Track for a 250 LM. It was offered by the NART. The car had been raced the year before, returned to the factory for renovation, and detuned for street use. The asking price was $25,000 or about the price of 2 new Ferraris. I begged my dad to purchase the car as I knew it would be very valuable in time. He wasn't interested as the price was beyond the family means.
     
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  27. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Veteran
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    "Money, money, money . . . aha!" to quote Abba.

    It's a bit like "Trigger's broom". For those of you not familiar with Only Fools and Horses, Trigger used the same road sweeping brush for his entire career. “This old broom”, he says “ has had 17 new heads and 14 new handles”. ;)
     
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  28. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

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    Philosophers call this the Ship of Theseus experiment while Americans have the age old Jeffersons axe saying which covers the same ground.

    This has all been tested in court when Ed Hubbard of Scimitar fame Bentley Speed 6 "old No. 1" the won Le Mans in 1929 and 1930 before it lost its chassis, engine and well every part except possibly the steering box during several rebuilds in the 1930s. While it contained less than 1% of the original cars parts it was the only link to the original and thanks to expert testimony from some BRDC experts the judge ruled that so long as an entity had continuous history it was the original entity. Even though it clearly wasn't. Generally cars only truly become complicated when parts from the original car are built into several entities, like the two #6045s that existed for thirty years. Everyone will have an opinion on this subject and they would all be right.
     
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