250 LM Picture Thread

What do you want to know ??

Of course, roll hoop and windscreen are not original and so, will not help you anymore...

 

Pete:
250 P Chassis type - 564
330 P Chassis type - 564C
250 LM Chassis type - 577

The chassis type number is different, the placement of the fuel tanks and crossover tubing is different, the location of the clutch is different.......there are many differences between the LM and the P series.

Aardy, I agree about the cant of the fuel filler. The only other logical possibility would be 0814 and it has been "330P'd" by adding the later P windscreen and vents between the front fender and luggage hatch. The 250 P did not have these originally. 0814 was run at Sebring as #32 in 1965. Regrettably, we can't see the intake opening is the rear deck in this photo.

 

Don't know wich one, but a P/63, definitively yes...

 

I remember in ancient history talking with Ken Starbird about the 250LM and P car; he had both simultaneously for a period of time. He said that lots of the components were the same - specifically remember him saying the steering rack was the same.

Has anybody put a 250P/330P build sheet side-by-side with a 250LM to see which/how many of the detail components are the same?

Jeff

 

There are differences between a 250GT SWB and a 250GTO but it is obvious that one started out as the other and was improved upon, or evolved to become the GTO. The 250/275 P was the SWB for the LM if you like, or child from which the LM was derived.

As always from the very knowledgeable people on this site I have learnt more specific details but I am very confident that Enzo said to pininfarina, or his team of Ferrari engineers, put a roof on the 250/275 P and that is how the LM came about.

Very few Ferraris were designed from a clean sheet, very few. Evolution is the way to long term success on the race track .
Pete

 

The picture shows the yellow 250LM 6107 at Daytona 1969 in the background.
It seems that the car has yellow rims at this time!?
Can anyone help with informations or a better picture of this 250LM?

Regards
Burkhard
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I started this a coupe of weeks(?) ago-then have had to travel extensively, as I chase down...yet another old racing car-in this case NOT a P-car, but none the less, here we go....

In my own experiences with this brace of cars, I offer the following observations, experiences, and rank heresay:

0810, 0812, 0814, and 0816 were ALL raced, with ALL of the engine iterations, and, all at the same time{obviously, as each powerplant became available}.. with nearly zero regard to chassis number....application was event driven only...and arbitrarily so, as explained to me by then Team members...

Nearly all of them had no "original" body panels(as shown on "press days" earlier in the year-people are always saying that the body contours seem "off" from photo to photo...well, they are correct, since frequently DIFFERENT panels were on the cars in different photos, depending upon what happened at the previous event, or, "at the last test session!")by the time the "big race in France" was concluded in June of 1963..
They were, after all, Factory TEAM/"Works" cars...they were put out to win, and win they did, as no other class of P-cars ever did...

0810 did well-Sebring 1st OA, 3rd at LM as a TEAM car

0812 has 2 FIA 1st OA. wins..1 was a Sebring, and 1 at N'Ring 1st OA, in different years! It was running away with LM in '63 when it had a fuel tank fire-see below.

0814 was a 1st OA @ LM in 1963, 2nd OA at Sebring in '64...

0816 was ALSO a 1st OA LM winner in 1964 as a 3.3 litre car

As for the cars in the pictures posted a few posts earlier-and pointed out by a subsequent poster:
"LMs" have riveted "saddle bag" tanks-with the quick fill caps in the tops of the rear quarter panels....
"P-car" Proto-type cars-of which the second photgraph illustrates-is...are easily discernable, as the fuel tank fill caps are in the FRONT, fender tops-for the alloy, WELDED, tanks(notoriously "crackers" which resulted in several disastrous fires) ..these are made "sans rivets"
In general terms: 250/275/330P cars and 330P cars:
While similar, there are several distinct-yet suble-differences between the two types of P-cars...mere visual queues do not tell you the whole story however...{CLUTHING, COOLING PASSGE TUBES, ETC, AD NAUSEAU...}
In general, the earlier iterations had windscreens with near vertical trailing lines, the door glass and edge lines of the basket handle and side door glass varies, but is rather evident in several of the posts in the last 2 pages.
The "true" 4-litre, 330P chassis cars{0818, 0820, 0822} have the "trailing" edge on the windscreen(from the get go}, scoops on rear 1/4 inlets are much more on top of the 1/4s, the fuel caps are more "on top", and the most commonly missed queue is the small beauty strip of aluminium which is on the lower most sector of the rear clam behind the wheel arch...these are a few of the most typically called out differences between original 3-liter chassis cars versus original 4-litre chassis cars.

Additionally, the 163C motors used early on were not as powerful as the later engines used in the 4 litre chassied cars.
John Surtees commented on the 250P as: " not quite quick enough, the 330 was a bit of a pig to handle, and the 275 was "just right" ...a more balanced car, but still kept the driver quite busy. Horrible heat issues for the drivers." a third hand quote from a driver with a distinguished LeMans resume...

Intersting side bar: of these 7 afoementioned chassied cars, almost half do NOT have original frames, and MORE than half of them do NOT have original bodies.
This factrotum is genrally reflective of the entire pool of P cars in general.
This is worthy of note in so far as we all typically view Ferraris and the originality of frames, bodies and engine numbers as a near sacosanct predicate of being a Ferrari.
However,
By the mid sixties, things were getting to be much faster, much, much, much more dangerous, and the competing elements were no longer the Maserati brothers, or a small car company from the UK(take your pick...AstoMartin, Jaguar...), or, US-ShelbyAmerica.....

Now....it was going to be FORD, or, even worse, PORSCHE fronting for the entire West German-NATO Miltary/Industrial Combine of that era...it was now bigtime, "FACTORY" racing... That said, the marginally competitive capabilities of Ferrari from the financial perspective at the time requires an adjusted view through this prism of perspective-thus the achievments of Ferrari and this class of P-Cars is even more impressive.

Lastly, LMs being closed cars are even louder, and even hotter...

Having one(a prototype-possibly even the one pictured!-there were only 4 after all...) of them in my shop for the better part of a year, and one of our mechanics had previously owned an LM or two(Myself, just another one of the many which "got away from me" when they were 10-15,000 dollar, "just an old racing car" sort of affairs in the early/mid 1970s....), and as such, in my humble opinion, I think we are somewhat qualified to offer such an analysis.

 

The pictures show the 250LM 6107 at Daytona 1968 driven by Fausto Merello.
Anyone knows the colour of the car at this race or can post a colour picture?
Copyright is unknown!
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Wow, that second photo is captivating the sol,itude of long distance racing so well. Thank you for posting!

 

I think I like the 250LM more than the 250GTO.

 

+1, my favourite Ferrari.

Pete

 

and to think that great one left our shores.
So many car people with money have no vision in Australia.

 

I can assure you it was on race weekend, I just went there for the race.
branko

 

Here is another picture of Daytona 1968 !
Did anyone have pictures of the two 250 LM, which ran in Mugello 1965 Race Number 124 and 125. Driven by Mario Casoni and Antonio Nicodemi (124) and Oddono Sigala and Luigi Taramazzo (125) ?
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Does anyone know where to find unmachined front brake discs for a 250LM?

/Alexander

 

Phantastic picture of the 250LM at Daytona!



Here are two pics of the 250LM-5891 at Mugello 1965!
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Is it possible,that there was another race in Mugello 1965, because I found this model on Ebay and it look different to the original pictures (Starting Numbers).

FERRARI 250 LM
Circuito Stradale del Mugello, June 6, 1965
Oddone Sigala / Luigi Taramazzo
3rd overall
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This is a model of 6173 finishing third at the same race.

 

My advice would be to start a "new thread" with this request!!!!

It may get "lost" in all the other posts, on this one....

 

And even more upsetting it left either before I came to Australia or before I knew one was in Sydney!!!!!!!!!!!

Bugger, I doubt if I'll ever see one ... in the flesh .
Pete

 

their were 2 in Sydney at the same time,just streets from each other.

 

Found a picture of a 250LM at Le Mans 1964.
Does anyone have more informations about this special version of a 250LM?
Best regards
Burkhard
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Test version of 5843 during the Le Mans testing days 18-19 April 1964.

 

Not 5843 but rather 5841 which had originally almost the same rear hood than 5149, then was tested at Le Mans with this streamlined rear hood and finally received a standard rear hood...

 

Here two pictures of 5843 in Le Mans 1964
Test and race version with a damage on the left front!?
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