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  1. velocetwo

    velocetwo F1 World Champ

    Dec 11, 2006
    12,461
    Left Coast
    But it's so easy to say it's not just right when you know it's a replica, couldn't it be the light or camera angle? Or the fact that many of the original cars had workmanship differences?
     
  2. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Pete
    I guess so, but heck it is MILES off!. Not remotely close or right.
    Pete
     
  3. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

    Oct 18, 2003
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    Matthew
    #28 Daytonafan, Jan 13, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  4. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Pete
    As I said miles off. Compare to 250 LM 5975

    Follow that link and there's a photo at a very similar angle to the first photo of this replica which I would have posted side by side except I have exceeded my quota.
    Pete
     
  5. Schlesser

    Schlesser Rookie

    Feb 12, 2013
    49
    5975 is indeed a very original and untouched car, but Bacchelli & Villa can do it much better as seen two times with the "6045"s...
     
  6. babci

    babci Formula Junior
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    May 19, 2011
    281
    Bacchelli & Villa had NOTHING to do with any aspect of the construction of the Freshman/Fossil Motorsports #6045 LM. This is a fact and been confirmed in private communications directly with Freshman on more than one occasion.
     
  7. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
    495
    '6045' in the 'Non Freshman' version was rebodied twice from Bacchelli (around 1988 and 2012/3).
     
  8. babci

    babci Formula Junior
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    May 19, 2011
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    #33 babci, Jan 21, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2016
    Would it not be more accurate and charitable to say the 'Non Freshman' newly constructed (Chassis built by Vaccari, or possibly Silvano Cantelli or?) version built around 1988 was bodied by Bacchelli & Villa once in that time period then again in 2012/13?
     
  9. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3
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    "miles off" is rather harsh based on a side view that looks distorted and given that Bacchelli & Villa have a good reputation and know what they are doing
     
  10. miuranut

    miuranut Rookie

    Jun 22, 2012
    15
    #35 miuranut, Jan 22, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

    It never fails to amaze when strong negative views like those of PSk are based on one image and usually expressed by someone who has probably never seen the object they are pulling down.

    It seems that Enigma and velocetwo are right when you follow PSk's link to 5975 at Schlumpf and see the shot below, then compare with another shot from the ORC website of the replica taken from a more similar angle than the first image in the thread. Bachelli & Villa probably have more experience working on 250LM than anyone. With such a complex curved body as the 250LM, viewing angle and lenses are all important if you are going to compare. These angles and impressions aren't exact, needing a bit of rotation in two axes, but pretty close:
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  11. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    Feb 22, 2004
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    Seen the car in NL many years ago, nose is quite okay but roof line certainly not imho
    I have seen Schlumpf car and many other original LMs, for a replica it is quite nice, not perfect but all depends on PRICE.
     
  12. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
    495
    This is certainly correct. But who bodied the beautiful Freshman car that seemed to be correct from all angles? Bacchelli is for sure the most experienced and one of the best if not the best available for LM rebodies. When Bacchelli produced the first shape of '6045' around 1988, some "5149" was constructed alongside. All really beautiful creations like the one here. And this one here is certainly one with a rather accurate shape and details even compared with some 'originals' like the Monteverde car, although I have to admit that the 5975 roof and shape is a class of its own and I have seen - except the Freshman car - all of them.
     
  13. babci

    babci Formula Junior
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    May 19, 2011
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    #38 babci, Jan 23, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2016
    "But who bodied the beautiful Freshman car that seemed to be correct from all angles?"

    Very much agreed.Saw it twice once when owned by Mike Schoen and then again when Bernard Hallingby/Nick Sprano had it. It was the best of all of them including the Classiched remaining "what is it mystery wagon." According to Freshman when asked "Coachwork by the best in all of Reggio Emilia FF." It was a shame it ended up a pile of little pieces of chopped up steel and aluminum on the floor of charlatans. Wish I had a piece of the leftovers for a cool key chain. Kind of surprised that the Classiche economic mercenaries didn't try to reap some profit from selling them. My guess is they feared someone would do some real forensic metallurgical testing that might reveal something that would contradict what story they wound up putting forth or thought that someone would reconstruct those pieces into some sort of incredible finished artwork.
     
  14. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    #39 PSk, Jan 25, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2016
    Thank you for posting this comparison.

    Differences:
    1. Top of windscreen, too thick.
    2. Rear of roof, not tapering down.
    3. Door window opening shape wrong. Note all rounded corners on the replica versus the sharp 90 on the real LM.
    4. Side window/waste depth, although I admit it looks better in this photo ... so I'll change "miles off" to "not right"

    I would expect the car to look exactly the same, why not?

    Although it appears impossible as when #0858 was converted to a P4, even though a body buck was made off #0900, it still looked nothing like #0900. Yes I am aware that a different company/person made that body ... I guess making bodies is really, really hard work.
    Pete
     
  15. Enigma Racing

    Enigma Racing Formula 3
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    #40 Enigma Racing, Jan 25, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Sorry Pete, I am still not convinced and my point remains that it is difficult to judge from so few pictures and without seeing the car.

    The side view compares very favourably to the numerous pictures posted of 5975.
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  16. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Pete
    I'm going to drop discussing this but I want to leave this thread with one comment: If you are viewing a replica in the flesh, unless there is a real car to compare with beside it, you gain nothing from this experience other than being able to judge the build quality.

    Build quality does not imply the shape is right.

    It is obvious in all photos that the build quality of this replica is very very good.
    Pete
     
  17. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

    Oct 18, 2009
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    Phill J
    Is it just Me, or does the side of the windscreen of the recreation sit slightly too vertically in respect to the A-post?

    On the picture of the genuine car, the side of the windscreen runs parallel to the A-post from top to bottom, so the width of the A-post remains the same all along its length.

    On the recreation, it appears that the width of the A-post at the top is slightly wider than at the bottom.

    (Of course it could be that the windscreen is correct and the A-post to the door frame is wrong).

    As has already been said, viewed on its own, the recreation looks very good, but when compared to a genuine car, details that aren't quite correct start to stand out.
     

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