250 or 375mm? | Page 3 | FerrariChat

250 or 375mm?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by ferraripete, Nov 18, 2005.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. emunoz167

    emunoz167 Rookie

    Nov 21, 2005
    38
    Caracas, Venezuela
    Hope you found the post interesting.

    I am not aware of th 250 or 375 Ferrari with a 327 corvette engine, I do remember seing the Testarossa mentioned before with the Corvette engine, I think it also had a Chevrolet rear end. I think Ferrari parts were expensive and difficult to get, besides Miami was only 8 hours away by airplane (in the 50´s). I do not have Felix Varona telephone, I can try to write to a friend of him to see if he is willing to help.

    Yes, I sent the photos in the MG-TD website in England, they are photos of my late father in 1953 and 1954.

    With regards to your 300 SL, I will send you a private message with the address of the Venezuelan Mercedes Benz Club president, he may be able to help you.

    My father co-drove a 300 SL in Sebring in 1956, the car was owned by Chester Flynn.

    You can see this and other photos of Venezuelan 50´s racing in these websites:

    ViejasFotos Actuales, this is a MSN group with a chapter dedicated to cars:

    http://groups.msn.com/VIEJASFOTOSACTUALES/automovilismodeportivo.msnw

    Vicente Sillitti´s Fangio website, his is an excellent website:

    http://www.jmfangio.org/gp1955venezuela.htm

    You could write a book with the incredible cars that were imported into Venezuela in the 50´s, 60´s and 70´s - later sold away by bargain hunters in the 80´s and 90´s: Porsche 904, Mercedes Benz 300 Sl, a Maserati "Sha de Iran", Ferraris 275 GTB, 250 Gt Tour the France, Aston Martin DB-2 (all these I saw personally, they belonged to Mauricio Marcotulli), plus many more. I one case a Bugatti 35 was traded for a Mustang P-51 and a Pitts special (TV Station owner Peter Bottome) . Saw these three also personally.

    regards,
    emunoz167
     
  2. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    emunoz,

    the corvette engine in the blue 250 or 375mm was a 283 cu (non supercharged). i had initially assumed that the vette engine must have been a 327 but my father told me it was a 283.

    the varona tr was w/ vette rear end as you stated. my dad and uncle bought that car from galia in even trade for a 68 camaro w/ 4 webers. i laughed when my dad and uncle said that the camaro had a really special weber manifold though...worth 1k! funny to me but i suspect that was fair money that day! i'm pleased to say that i think we have as a group, officially identified this car properly...i think!

    still open to discovery, are:

    1. the 250 or 375mm blue w/ black and 283 vette engine that my father and brother got from max charlette. they went on to sell the car to sanchez vega.
    incidentally, the pictures of this car were my ferrari inspiration as a kid...i will never forget the picture of the rear en of the car w/ my dad sticking his head out of the rhd driver window looking real cool!! that must have been very, very cool to have had that car w/ a thumping v-8!!!

    2. a 4 cyl tr or similar spyder that was purchased from felix varona. that car was traded even for an old boat w/ an evinrude 100 hp outboard. my uncle described the trade as varona saying...what do you have to trade? as if to imply...just bring something of some value and the car is yours! crazy!!! this car had been raced by ola rodriga (sorry if that name is continually used...it is just the name my dad gave. he did say he was later killed in a p2 so, it may actually be rodrigo borres as you suggest).

    oh and btw, you mentioned the 904 gts as being a car that was sold in the 80's...

    bet that car had a flat 6 and may have been the cheapest 904 sold know to man! $15k and sold in 1983...just a guess!!! :)

    emunoz...you are a huge help in my finding info on these old cars that passed through the hands of my dad and his brother.

    btw, my fathers name is arpad brinzey and his brother is boton (bobby) brinzey if that helps.
     
  3. MJarrettR

    MJarrettR Formula 3

    Apr 14, 2004
    1,472
    Miami, FL
    Full Name:
    Jarrett Rothmeier
    #53 MJarrettR, Nov 21, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Pete,

    Interesting thread. I would be surprised if your dad's car was 0380AM, but its certainly not impossible. According to my records, this car was sold new to Count Innocente Baggio in Italy, and then showed up with the actor Peter Helm in Hollywood, CA in 1964. Later to Wheeler sometime in the 1970s. Attached is a picture scaned from a book, believe its Antoine Prunet's Sports Racing & Prototypes, from when 0380AM was at the Geneva Motor Show in 1954. Your car was definitely not 0320AM or 0322AM as these both have continuous history in the USA during the time frame. According to all published sources, 0318AM was written off/destroyed after its accident in the 1953 Carrera Panamericana. I would say a more likely guess would be a 250MM as there were a few of these floating around South America at that time. Marcel Massini might be able to provide a guess on one of those. However, as stated earlier, I think at this point a picture would be the only way to really tell.

    -Jarrett
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  4. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    jarrett,

    if that is 0380am...then it is not my fathers car. absent is the roof vent which as i stated was biult into the cars coach work and not the 3variable opening unit as posted earlier in this thread. the rear fenders are also different.

    my fathers car had boxed vent looking devices on the rear fenders that i think may have been used to make provision for more tire clearance when bottoming out.

    your point is well taken...it may have been a 250mm (as steve barney thought some years back) but it was not 0380am based on the picture you provided.

    thank you, we have eliminated another possibility.
     
  5. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    btw, i will post a picture as soon as my father returns from lima. he left on sunday and will be back this weekend. we only have the one picture of he and the car...but it is wicked cool!
     
  6. MJarrettR

    MJarrettR Formula 3

    Apr 14, 2004
    1,472
    Miami, FL
    Full Name:
    Jarrett Rothmeier
    Hi Pete,

    As mentioned earlier in this thread, it sounds like your father owned 250TR s/n 0758TR. What year(s) did he purchase and sell this car? Any chance we'll get to see a picture of this one or the other 4 cylinder? Thanks

    -Jarrett
     
  7. GTSguy

    GTSguy Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2004
    615
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    #57 GTSguy, Nov 22, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

    Yeah, your post is 'a bit' to put it lightly! There are many leads here which I will follow with much interest. Much interest. Please feel free to contact me via PM if you prefer as this is not specifically Ferrari related. Could you resend the Mercedes contact info again? It seems to ahve disappeared from my box.

    Many, many thanks!

    Here's a few examples of the pictures on one of Emunoz's links:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. Christian.Fr

    Christian.Fr Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 9, 2005
    20,682
    Full Name:
    Christian.Fr
    very nice pic, is it possible to have the 250 Gt # 6 in large
    thnaks in advance
     
  9. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    i will attempt to post the pics next week. sorry for the delays as i don't have them in my hands currently and my father is away this week and i will be gone next...we have to meet somewhere along the way or w/ some luck, he will be able to post them himself.

    happy thanksgiving to you all and again, thank you all for the interest and help on this discovery thread.

    pcb
     
  10. GTSguy

    GTSguy Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2004
    615
    Northern California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    I believe that these pictures were taken and collected by emunoz167's father. You should contact him regarding this request.
     
  11. emunoz167

    emunoz167 Rookie

    Nov 21, 2005
    38
    Caracas, Venezuela
    #61 emunoz167, Nov 23, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This picture was scanned from a magazine photocopy so quality is not very good. It shows driver Ettore Chimeri before the Gran Premio de Trinidad in 1959. I cant find it right now so I am sending another picture of the same car.

    Regards,

    emnoz167
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  12. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
    Honorary

    Sep 7, 2004
    2,493
    West Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Edwin K. Niles
    0380 could not be the car in question; I remember Helm driving it into Sal DiNatale's shop with the original engine still in 0380. See my story a few weeks ago in FML.
     
  13. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    ed,

    we had decided that 0380 is not the car based on its' history and its body configuration. when i get back from vacation and am able to post the picture i think things will be more clear and we can then dial into the proper car and its' current whereabouts.

    pcb
     
  14. Christian.Fr

    Christian.Fr Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 9, 2005
    20,682
    Full Name:
    Christian.Fr
    and what about your investigations? what did you find
    i din t read all ( my english is poor) can you make a summary?
    thanks
     
  15. Manel

    Manel Karting

    Oct 7, 2004
    91
    Catalonia
    Full Name:
    J.Manuel Baró
    Most interesting post. I try to trace the sport cars racing in Venezuela and Cuba during the '50's.
    Have not results of the Trinidad race available yet, so I merely guess whether the TdF in the background of the picture is Lino Fayen's 0933 GT. Perhaps you can confirm.Tks
     
  16. emunoz167

    emunoz167 Rookie

    Nov 21, 2005
    38
    Caracas, Venezuela
    Greetings,

    This race was held in 15 March 1959, I believe the first Ferrari was a 250 TDF No. 1037 GT driven by Julio Pola and second may have been a 250 GT LWB was No. ??? driven by Ettore Chimeri.

    No. 1037 was later lost for several years in a repair shop in the interior of Venezuela, then was bought by Mauricio Marcotulli in 1981-1982, was garaged in my fathers home for several monhs before Mauricio took it to another garage, and sold it in 1983-1984, it then was exported to USA.
     
  17. t walgamuth

    t walgamuth Formula Junior

    Mar 13, 2005
    850
    the second car lacks the kick up and small window behind the side window that (i thought) the lwb had.

    it looks like a tdf to me.

    i am certainly no expert.

    tom w
     
  18. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
    3,043
    San Francisco Area
    Full Name:
    John Vardanian
  19. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    i will try to post pictures when my father gets back in the country...i hope we can clear up the story of my dad's car, fill in the blanks w/ respect to the 327 corvette motor as well as where it sits today.

    the red car in the forcoing picture was not the car my dad owned while living in carracas...his car was a silver blue color.
     
  20. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 18, 2004
    511
    The red car is 0472AM, the Alfred Ducato car. Originally metallic blue with a black top and full width front bumper that incorporated the bumperettes.
     
  21. t walgamuth

    t walgamuth Formula Junior

    Mar 13, 2005
    850
    the red car is not the same front fender treatment as the second car in the pic. the car in the racing pic has a covered light. the red car has an earler style recessed frenched light.

    note the character line that runs from side to side with no break under the lights. this feature is very similar to the front end treatment as a pf coupe but in the racer has covered headlights. i bet the grill opening is like the early pf coupe too. i say it is a 250 tdf. based on the body's looks.

    the roof line and rear fender "haunch" are a lot like a tdf, too.

    the red car is lovely though.

    the red car looks more like something that might have the 375 motor. again, i am no expert on racing cars.

    tom w
     
  22. jcwconsult

    jcwconsult Karting

    Sep 20, 2004
    223
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Full Name:
    Jim Walker
    The red car is 0472AM, the Alfred Ducato car. Originally metallic blue with a black top and full width front bumper that incorporated the bumperettes.


    I believe that 0472 was shown at Pebble Beach last year. I had the chance to hear its engine, sans exhaust, at the same time my 365 GT 2+2 engine was fired up, sans exhaust. The 375 won the decibel contest, hands down.

    Regards,

    Jim Walker
     
  23. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 18, 2004
    511
    The picture is from Pebble Beach 2006.
     
  24. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
    3,043
    San Francisco Area
    Full Name:
    John Vardanian
    Hi Jim,

    I have only seen 0472AM in B&W pictures taken in studio setting. The car would be so much more attractive in duo-tone and the proper brightwork.

    john
     
  25. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 6, 2004
    16,445
    ON
    Full Name:
    CH
    ttt
     

Share This Page