250 PF Engine Variations

Julio -
Congratulations on your teams' hard-fought win!
I hope you & Oscar enjoy your Spumante!

Tritone

 

This discussion might tie in with a discussion we had about the very early TR engines a while back, sprouting from the question of valve-spring types on these heads. If memory serves I think that discussion was never decisively concluded.

Julio, what type of valve springs does your engine have?

Also, if this engine is in any way off the normal specs, there should be a build-sheet for it somewhere; building an engine with off-series-specs is an expensive excersise, and would not happen without it being documented properly. If this engine came from Enzo's personal car, which car was it, and does anyone have the build sheets to that car?

Julio, congrats with winning the cup. As a Dutchman I cannot but conclude that the Spanish played the better soccer. The ref though needs to be sent packing. No sour grapes here, Spain deserved to win this match, the Dutch were hacking around.

 

Julio, Yes, scan of build sheets posted would be welcome.

 

Julio, please do post the build sheet. Regards, Alberto

 

From the build sheet, the data shows a relatively normal 128D motor, confirmed also by the suffix "D" of the matching numero interno "048D" in the block photo. The block is listed as 128C - interested to learn if there are any numbers cast into the rear of the block at the timing hole. Curious paint sticker next to the identity plate.

 

Greetings, Julio. I have PF coupe 1147 GT. The engine build sheet data for 1147 GT is the same as for 1157 GT, except 1147 GT Rapp. (compression ratio) is 9.4, and the Fase (camshaft timing) is different by about 1 degree (nominaly identical). I guess we both have standard engines. My car also was converted to 15 inch wheels with Dunlop disc brakes, probably by Ferrari factory. 1147 GT was delivered new to Italauto S.A. of Lausanne and sold new to Guiness, resident of Switzerland.

 

Hi Julio, do you have exact date when your father bought this car? And when were you living at that time?

I think the engine was prepared for 1109GT while it was being completed for Ferrari's private use and 1157GT was still being constructed at Pininfarina. Then they decided to put in something else - and the intended engine was bumped into the next car that didn't have an engine allocated to it yet.

Time frame is so tight that I don't think this engine ever was necessarily really installed in Enzo's car, but maybe it got some special attention in assembly, hence the note on build sheets and destination for an old customer. This is pure speculation, of course. Best wishes, Kare

 

Many owners claiming this or that will never have such proof for their claims as you already have: that note on the build sheets is pretty interesting - and impressive.

BTW, which side of the family did Vincenzo Malago belong to, mother's or father's?

Best wishes, Kare

 

You mean those build sheets? Not my strongest area, but AFAIK, piston weight, rod weight and CR are pretty normal. Twin distributors were also standard, except for the very first cars in series. Best wishes, Kare

 

Hi Julio: A few months ago my 330 GTC 9111 was sold via Fantasy Junction (Berkeley,CA) to the Netherlands, I believe. My 250 needs the engine rebuilt, as it smokes too much to drive in California. It does run well though, with plenty of power and revs. I prefer the older cars. I would like another 250, maybe a Lusso or PF cab II. These are somewhat affordable to me. I would again consider a 330 GTC or even a 365 GTB/4, but the 250 (even the PF coupe) is the heart, the essence of Ferrari. It is like a race car.

 

Auction catalogue descriptions are usually written by writers to promote sales, not by those who know or care what really happened and as a result we sometimes get to see marvellous pieces of fictious writing. Sometimes it gets really weird and I think 0366AM, for instance, was once offered for sale described as having been badly wrecked THREE TIMES when in real life it was never had a serious crash - as far as we know it.

This is not a bad case but still two clear mistakes:

- Construction of bodywork for chassis number 1157GT was started on 03/nov/58, and it usually took Ferrari/Pininfarina about three months to complete a steel bodied road car, so I would expect completion and delivery towards the end of January 1959***.
- 128D-engine built using a 128/LM-10612 block most certainly is not same as 128/LM-engine "as fitted to the 250 TR Testa Rossa sports racer"

Best wishes, Kare

***PS. this actually leaves a one-two month window, while the engine might actually have been installed into 1109GT. It was started on 25/sep/58, so I would expect completion in December.

 

I mean that a road engine like yours is definitely different from a "engine to 128 LM specification (as fitted to the 250 TR Testa Rossa sports racer)" and thus the quoted claim is incorrect or at least inaccurate "an sich". 250TR had six carbs, lighter rods, higher compression, hotter cams etc, etc. Best wishes, Kare

 

I used to own 1147gt. Sold it to Los gatos lux cars in 2003 it was red with black when I owned it but originally gray I think

Regards

Simon dgb
[email protected]

 

By the way, has #1109GT ever turned up anywhere? Was exported outside Italy in May of 1960.

 

1109 GT lives in Switzerland since 17 May 1960, still today, with the sixth owner.

Here's a pic I took just recently.

Marcel Massini

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Marcel, is that in original color? If so what is it?

john