250 TDF vs 250 SWB

If you buy one, please don't change the brakes. They are part of the character of the car. Use it and appreciate it for what it is. In my opinion, the TdF's are more beautiful than the swb's. More elegant and not so stubby.

George

 

My experience is that drum brakes are largely misunderstood today. People don't know how to service, break-in or use them correctly. If working correctly, there should be plenty of power, these cars were raced hard with these brakes!

 

+1

 

The truth is that all of these wonderful car are VERY fragile compared to modern cars and even a "minor" fender bender can really hurt you if you're driving one.

I think you have to consider them as dangerous as a motor scooter and act accordingly.

 

Hi Edmond, not to worry aout the drum brakes. They are fine you only have to get used to it. You get your tyres to lock under hard braking you only need a strong leg becauser there are no servos.

Since I have my TdF I also used to have a Lusso, a 275 GTB/6C and a 365 GTB/4 I can compare them well. Take a wild guess why I sold the others and still have the TdF. It gives the most pleasure of them all.

If there is such thing as a Ferrari that is handling like a truck - compared to the other Berlinettas - it would be the Daytona. Great on a wide road but on a small one? As soon as the Daytona or the others can't make use of the extra power they are no match to the TdF.

Almost everyone has a SWB but the TdF is for the connoisseur...

Best regards

Matthias

 

Hi Kare, I like that! But some simply don't get it.

The problem is that most people only have hearsay experience or driven a car once for a short testdrive. It is a big difference if you know a car for years because you own one and drive it often.

Best regards

Matthias

 

I had the engine with the high lift race cams which made it very powerful but only above 4.000 rpm. Below it was only so so. Therefore the driving was more the digital style. Accelerate (unbelievable) fast but also brake hard. It was very exhausting to drive fast for longer trips.

With the TdF you adapt more to the constant flow type style of driving which is by no means slower but much more relaxed. You can go for hours and hours!

Best regards

Matthias

 

I was going to suggest an alloy 275 GTB/6c Long Nose Torque Tube. Previously I'd have preferred an alloy 275 GTB/4 but I just love the look of the single cam engine and its connection to the older and very important 250 cars that I've been interested in for a while now and the idea of those 6 Webers with 12 trumpets on that engine appeals greatly. Independent rear suspension and disc brakes too. The 275 GTB/4 that you already have is great. What a great position to be in with all these fabulous options to consider.

Good 275 thread here: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=329344

 

I think this rule only works to 1956.


Onno

 

Sounds like the shoes are not correct, not properly broken in or glazing has built up (=not used hard enough, they need to "smoke" a little every once in a while!).

Drum brake is designed to have a self boosting effect; that means that once the shoe "bites" into the drum, the friction pulls the shoe along and applies more braking power just by itself. If the friction does not build up from the beginning, the brakes are totally unresponsive until you press the pedal hard enough - resulting in immediate lock-up. Unpredictable = dangereous!

What comes to TdF vs. Swb, for me TdF takes it all. It is a dramatic Scaglietti design with limited production numbers and numerous small changes through the production. SWB is well balanced design, but a little dull - typical Pininfarina. Very little changes during 3-4 years of production; paint it red and nobody can tell which one it is!

 

TDF every time for me...

 

TdFs are pretty special. Almost all have some degree of racing history. Start to decide if you prefer covered or open headlights on the 3 and 1 louver cars.

Jeff

 

Lovely car here and some interesting TdF info about how it drives, and in comparison to a 275 GTB/4 plus TdF race history. Just look at that voluptuous front end that seems to go on for ever and then the low windscreen, the view from which must be awesome. There are some great details on the TdF.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJBqtoXlBDs[/ame]

 

Lots of interesting comments here---good work, you guys. Kare, it is true, strictly speaking, that the TdF is a Scaglietti design, because he modified the PF prototype design S/N 0425GT, pictured here.
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Initially, there is the simple act of driving a 50-60 year old car....
Safety is-as Jim points out-a technicality not considered important in that era!!....

so, if you have EVER been in a collision in a late model car, and your life was saved or protected by ABS, air bags, crumple zones, safety glass, multipoint belts, ad nausea....then consider these cars carefully, as you would almost certainly NOT exact full pleasure from EITHER car, if the aforementioned crash were used subjectively!
You would not drive the car past 60-70% as you would almost certainly in your mind hear cruching metal and be hallucinating the forthcoming multiple 6 figure repair bills!

The "Tdf" series cars were: ALL alloy cars-and defacto-ALL were racing cars...in original intent of the mfger.
think period mentality...{for perspective purposes, I cant strongly enough urge you watch BOTH B&W TV documentaries on 1955 LeMans disaster, and the deaths in F1 1960-1978}
the drum brakes not so much an issue, but when combined with lever shocks(also cave man stuff), and bicycle tyres on wire wheels, (but more important to consider is: how little or how much inertia affects brake performance), and the biggest problem IMO-as a professional machinist/enginebuilder for 35+ years- is the 3 stud inside plug design. {with 3 SIAMESED PORTS WITH 2 90 degree turns per throat per cylinder/valve!}

Great for 1947/49 125s...but chosing between this, and an outside plug car with tube shocks-regardless of the composition of coach materials, is an absurd comparison to be argued most strongly by those who have little to zero experience in the seat at 75% effort in said cars!
If you want to talk about-and you specifically preclude these-14 louvre Tour de France WINNERS...well, all shortcomings are forgiven!
But as you cede...there is a 3-4X cost multiplier involved now...in Tdfs...
swb costs are by and large even more outragous today.

SWBs are just plain better cars and were, after the early 1960 comp groupings, largely ALL street cars excepting the "SEFACs", thus intended for less than all out useage, thus are a more "civilized" driving experience...to this end, they are the "better car".
...if you want to call out comp vs. comp...it is not close which were the better(nee successful) cars...However...
... through all prisms of comparison excepting the die hard nostalgists-who insists ever progressive age and funkiness is always better...to this crowd: what ever floats your boat- I will, however (as a former owner of both and having rebuilt both...and having been paid to do the same to both)maintain that:
The Emporer is still not wearing any clothes!

...disc brakes, tube shocks, outside plugs, infinitely better castings, tapered roller bearings in critical hi-load driveline components as oppossed to side loaded ball bearings, much higher precision in the machining of components...
...for the aircraft buffs reading: a P-51D is...well it is what it is...but this is like asking whats better...the "D", or a King Air 200?
they just are not the same , or even the same era, or the same intended purpose....

"the persecution rests"
PS- when was the last time a Tdf "won" its class at Monterey?
when was the last time an SWB "won" its class at Monterey?
FWIW......think about it....

 

The thing that really got me thinking about how fragile these oldtimers are was when I was driving P 4/5 C at Balocco in the rain and 170 MPH and I noticed I was humming softly to myself. That rarely happens when I drive 002.

Hope to see U at Quail. We'll have 002 there and I will drive it over. Carefully...

 

This 275 GTB/6c sounds great:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgdEc_kuBt0[/ame]

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFeS-qHPcWA[/ame]


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyrEyZCHy4Y[/ame]

 

The one with the outside plugs (and 4 studs/cylinder). It is the stronger engine.

That aside, to me the period of TdF and that of SWB are like cars without and with electronic driver aids, it is sort of the end and beginning of 2 different era's. The 250 is mechanically vastly superior, not just because it is the younger of the 2. It's old school versus developed car.

It's also racecar versus roadcar.

That said, we're talking 50 years later now. All have had engines rebuilt, most of them probably modified to a lesser or higher degree, coils versus hairpins, light pistons and rods, camshafts. The ability of the engine to rev is what you want it to be.

Then there are aesthetics: There are quite a few differences between individual TdF's, and would you look at an early SWB or a later one. The effect of the subtle differences are, to me, quite profound.

Another question to answer is, how will it add to your Ferrari experience, given that you own a 275GTB/4. The TdF will widen your horizon more than the SWB in that regard, the driving experience being further removed from what you have and know.

Last, I wish I was plagued by your problem.

Good luck!