250GTE vs 330GT 2+2 vs 365GT 2+2

Dan,

Thank you for your nice words.

I have one more piece of advice: know what you are getting into before you commit. Try to go for a drive in one to see if you really like the experience. These are old cars using old technology that are a very different experience from any of the more modern cars. An E-36 M3 will outperform any of the cars you are considering and is cheaper to buy and maintain.

My 330 is getting some i's dotted and t's crossed at the moment. If you don't find an owner locally and want to come up to central New Jersey in a few weeks we can go for a drive. Then you can decide for yourself if what you see are beauty marks or warts.

Best Wishes,

Art S.

PS. In case you are interested, there are a couple of pictures of my car in the 330 register – mine is SN# 7919.

 

The classics are a lot more rare because they were produced in far, far fewer numbers.

For example, there were some 450 single headlight 330s built. There were over 12,000 308s built. So it makes sense that the 330s are harder to find.

Rust really isn't a reason why you see so few classics for sale, nor is it a silent killer. If they do rust badly, then the cars are actually reborn as Testa Rossa replicas or something.

--Matt

 

Dan, I'll try to attach pix of our 330 Series II, s/n 8325. Am happy to answer specific questions you have about that particular model. Check out www.tomyang.net. Can help you find right person to do pre-purchase inspection, etc.

Hey, Art, do you know that you have a tree growing out of the top of your car. I got jipped, mine doesn't have that option! Jack Horner
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I named mine "Il Dottore"
I drove 2 330s, one 250, and a GTC4 before I bought mine, sight unseen in Belgium (I did do a PPI with pics were sent over by a Dutch marque specialist). Get the one that says "je ne sais quoi" to you. Trust your gut, do not rationalize which one has better stats, quicker return on investment, etc.

Once you hear the sound of any V12 at 6K rpm...you are right,,,there is no way that you will regret anything, or NOT like that feeling.

thx
luke

 

I thought I would include a couple more pictures of my car.

(Jack and Luke: You've each got a great looking car!)

 

Dan, I'm sure you'll love the feel of a tight 330 2+2.
Smiles, I sure like your silver one!
Here's our old one:

 

A couple more for you. #9727 BTW.

 

Jack,

Always go for the Christmas tree option! It's the way Enzo would have wanted it!

There are advantages to having a car with original paint, especially if it’s hard lacquer. I didn't worry about it and no harm was done.

I like to think I'm part of the Ferrari Users Club North America - FUCN'A! (Coined by Alan Wilson in PH #142).

Regards,

Art S.

PS. Luke, Smiles, Bill and you have beauties.

PPS. If I get around to figuring out how to post pictures here, I will put up some of 7919.

 

Here's mine...with the picturesque NIH behind it...your tax dollars at work.
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Tony, Your black car looks great!

 

Years ----- Model ------------------------ Serial # range -- Quantity
60-61 --- 250 GTE Series I --------------- 1895GT-3083GT --302
61-62 --- 250 GTE Series II -------------- 3103GT-4089GT -- 348
62-64 --- 250 GTE Series III ------------- 4093GT-4089GT -- 305
63-64 --- 330 America ------------------- 4953-5125 -------- 50
63-65 --- 330 GT, 4 headlights, overdrive - 4963-6937 ------- 500
65 ------ 330 GT 4 headlights, 5speed ---- 6939-7547 ------- 125
65-67 --- 330 GT 2 headlights, 5speed ---- 7553-10193 ------ 455
68-71 --- 365 GT 2+2 -------------------- 10791-14099 ----- 801

 

I would have bought a 330 2+2 or 250 GTE - preference was 50-50 with me. It so happened that the 330 2+2 became available at the appropriate moment.

I think generally the 330 2+2 is a more "modern" car - more 60's than 50's. My car -#5409- is a very early example of the 330 2+2, I think the twenty-first production car of that model. As such, it shares many features and details with the earlier 250 GTE/330 America. I have come to appreciate this unique aspect of my car very much.

I purposely sought a car with no air conditioning and little or no power extras. I removed the 1970's stereo that was installed in it.

The upside was that it was in very excellent basic mechanical condition, with extremely strong engine and driveline, quite decent from an appearance and soundness standpoint, and very complete. The price was reasonable.

Downside was that it was owned for a very long time by the same person, who kept it garaged and out of the elements but drove it very little for maybe 20 years. As a consequence, it needed some major reconditioning:
brake rebuild , new rear exhaust system, replacement of deteriorated motor and transmission mounts and suspension bushings, radiator repair, carb rebuild, and replacement of engine seals and gaskets($$).

I've personally done considerable work on the car, including complete
removal of the major interior components to get documentation for heritage certificate and buildsheets, and repair needs that became apparent along the way. "As long as I've got it apart I might as well fix this, this, and this, along with the other stuff."

Eighteen months after making the initial purchase I find myself with a reliable, if somewhat temperamental vintage Ferrari, that is well sorted out from the mechanical end, looks and sounds fantastic, and is always a big event to drive. It still has a list of minor odds and ends to do which I will complete in my very improved workspace when we move into our long awaited new home shortly.

I can't say that I regret that I ended up with more of a fixup car than someone else's finished restoration. The time and effort spent and experience gained have been worthwhile and I will certainly know the ropes if I ever take on another one.

See Pics.
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a few points - first, I second everything said here singing the praises of the 1960s Ferrari 2+2s. As far as I'm concerned, we are the geniuses of the Ferrari world, getting the vintage v-12 experience for a fraction of the cost of the 2-seaters.

If you're going to have a big grand tourer, you may as well be proud of its bigness. So I have always gotten a kick out of the fact that I could say my car, the 365GT2+2, is the longest car ever made by Ferrari. I was a little bummed when I read in the latest Car & Driver review of the 612 the following; "Threading through heavy traffic, avoiding manic baby Fiats, the biggest Ferrari ever (at 193 inches in length) quickly shrinks around the driver." p.78.

HOWEVER, I checked my factory manual which states that the Queen is 195"!!!! You're still the biggest, darlin'

I think I'll send a cheeky letter to C&D

 

When I first got my 365 2+2, I parked it in my mom's garage, next to the Range Rover she had at the time. The 365 was noticeably longer than the Range Rover, something which always impressed me.

The good ol' Queen is a wonderful car, especially for long distance touring (what it was made for, IMO).

 

Bryan,

I'm pretty sure the 365 California is longer. On the plus side, at least some of the 14 were 2+2.

Art S.

 

According to Original Ferrari V12, the overall length for the 365 California is 192.91 inches. What a cool car, btw! I'd love to have one of those.

The 500 SuperFast weighs in at 189.76 inches, while the 365 2+2 comes in at 188.74 inches.

 

interesting spin on the usual fchat "mine is longer" debate....

 

My interest in the 365 California is based on the fact a neighbor had one (first vintage Ferrari I ever saw). He bought his in 1972 for $10k (a lot of money back then) and used it daily until about '85 or '86. He drove it across the country at least once. Big Beautiful Car and a 2+2!

He recently gave it to his son.

Art S. 7919

 

As a point of comparision.

A 1965 Ford Mustang is 181.6 inches long
A 1969 Ford Mustang is 187.4 inches long.

So the 365 is a good sized car but definitely not a BIG car in that era.

Erich

 

Luke, LMAO!

I wonder where Bluemel gets 187.74"?? esp when the 1968 factory manual says 195" . . . that's a big difference.

And regarding wax's post on production numbers, I also see that Bluemel has listed (in the Cavallino 'mercato') the number of Queens at 809. I have never seen any other number than 800 or 801 as the #.

Prunet in 'The Road Cars' lists the range as between 10700 and 14100.

Raab has the first ones as:
09759 - Chinetti - #84(? how could this be?);
then 10431 (prototype #1) USA - Pinkerton - #214(?)
then 10479 (prototype London salon 1967) - #5 - RH - 'conversion'(?)
then 10791 (Brussels salon) - #1.
so Raab's entries raise a bunch of questions . . .

Bluemel's range is 09757 to 14099

any comments? Against my better judgment, I am seriously considering becoming the 365GT2+2 database guy unless someone has already invented that wheel. The primary motive is trying to find out, as much as possible, how many of the 800+ survive.

 

I nominate BryanP to be the 365GT2+2 database guy! Make sure its linked to Tom Yang's site as that is vintage central for me.

Art S. 7919

 

Bryan,

Just to make you feel better about things, your Ferrari is longer than mine.

Art S. 7919