250LM

I would pick a 250LM over a 250GTO! My drive of 6051 will remain a high point: I felt the engine was between my ears not inches behind and also that the whole car was built a hair's breath out of the fifties. David Piper (who absolutely loves his forays to South Africa) told me LM's are not as forgiving as GTO's on the limit but still it would be one of my top 5 Ferraris.

 

Yes the LM is truly a beautiful car! I see a 250LM manual for sale on e bay for 9k
us..seems a bit steep but it is rare.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130196964694&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=003

 

Drive an LM for a while without ear protection and its a guaranteed headache for a while. I swore that it must have been louder inside than out - it's like sitting inside a tin can with someone beating on the outside.

It is a very nervous car that let you know that it would easily bite back.

All said though it was absolutely outstanding.

Jeff Kennedy

 

Never owned a GTO, but have had a ride across France in one. Owned an LM and drove it from SF to LA, and on the streets of LA. Comparism: Seating, goofy in LM because of front wheel impingement---you sit straight ahead but feet are on an angle. Heat, much worse in LM. Noise, much higher in LM. Shifting, synchro in GTO; crash box in LM. Looks, in the eye of... Speed, a bit better in LM (larger engine). Handling, as stated, the LM is more unforgiving, but maybe a bit better otherwise; who knows? Have I covered everything? It depends on what you are looking for, doesn't it? All round, IMO, the GTO is more to be coveted. Only my 2c.

 

Oh, forgot to add complete straight exhaust on the LM. No snanp, no resonators just glorious sound although the neighbors might not have the same opinion.

Jeff

 

I ran a 275LM on the road for a couple of weeks which was long enough to convince myself that the 250GTO was the last 'racing' Ferrari to be truly ambidextrous - or, if you prefer, bisexual.

I had been warned about slipping the clutch - the LM's Achilles heel - because it would burn out. The car offered zero rear three-quarter vision which meant one had to line-up at 90-degrees at every road junction in order to see oncoming traffic. Safe motoring out of slip roads or at other angled junctions was effectively impossible. The clutch requirement, a high first gear and poor low-speed torque meant that one had to wind on about 5,800rpm before daring to pop the clutch, whereupon the old lady would stagger away oopah-oopah until the V12 cleared its throat, whooped and ar the car rushed off into its element. But from rest if you wound on 7,000rpm, and popped the clutch then everybody in the world would take notice, including every cop for miles.

If the sun was out and blazing in through that goldfish bowl windscreen, sitting in the cockpit was like sitting in a sauna. If the sun was clouded over then the cockpit - once sufficient miles had been covered for the radiator pipes to heat up fully - was again like sitting in a sauna.

Through long high-speed corners the LM set up a peculiar kind of shuffling motion. Near my personal limit - around 60-70%, I'd guess, of a proper young driver's limit, the LM's rear end threatened impending GBH.

Yet overall, running the car like that, and parking it outside my Mum and Dad's council house in which I had lived my first 18 years very happily indeed, was the realisation of a schoolboy dream. Silly, unsuited and inadequate though the LM might have been as a road car - I loved every minute of it.

DCN

 

Here is the Scale Designs 1/24 Piper Lemans 1968 #21 model kit.The car did pretty well that year(held late due to French domestic problems)

Tom Tanner/Scale Designs
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The Piper 1968 250LM Lemans car had lift off front and rear sections.They also
cut out the wheel spoke centers and flared the rear wheel wells.

TT/SD

 

I remember following Peter Smith in his LM one summer. He threw the door open at every opportunity to let the oven-hot air out of the cockpit. Still, what fun it must have been!

 

It's strange but I very much enjoying driving cars like this on the road. The open spyder versions have a lot more visibility although Dino Competizione with it's bubble like greenhouse is fine as well. The Mk-IV and Lola T 70 some how aren't too bad either. Of them all my Lola is really very nice on the street. When we designed P 4/5 we tried to use the bubble top to make it easier to drive on the street and it really worked. That one is no problem driving anywhere including Paris at rush hour. On the street it's torque you want and that's where the MK-IV and Lola shine. You can step off the clutch at 1000 rpm and they will move off with little drama. If you bring the MK-IV up to 5K and come off the clutch you'd better have opposite lock cranked in when you do or your going to loose it. Modern cars like P 4/5 are amazing. Put it in race mode bring revs up and step off the brake and all you have to remember to get to 100kph in 3 seconds is that the shift will come up FAST. As soon as you see yellow pull the paddle or you'll hit the limiter. A Veryon is something more than that. Put it in gear with your foot on the Brake.
Bring the revs to 5K. Step off the brake and plant the throttle. You will cover the 1/4 mile in 10.5. All you have to do is hold the steering wheel gently. That one is too much for me and I enjoy the 60 Sports racers much more but P 4/5 isn't something you soon forget either.

 

Wonderful posts, Ed, Doug, thank you!

Yes I suppose reality is not as simple as fantasizing but if it is for the occasional escapade then these issues are tolerable!

 

Doug,

I don't know if 5909LM had had anything different with its clutch done by Griswold but I didn't have problems. I did feather the clutch in and out until moving then it was fine. The clutch did consume left legs as an appetizer. More than once sitting at a stop light where I couldn't throw it back to neutral I had to physically hold the knee down with both hands.

Ed Niles: you mentioned how the driving position is straight ahead with one's legs going diagonally to the certerline. The other think of note was that if anyone was in the passenger seat the instructions were that they had to keep their feet pulled up since the 3 pedals and the dead pedal consumed all the foot well. A passenger naturally wanted to put there feet on the dead pedal and this was extremely disconcerting to the driver.

At 22 with use of an LM for 2 months was pretty cool!

Jeff

 

Yes that footwell is very narrow and worrying: going around Moroso as a passenger and then at the wheel with C.A: the owner of the car I was worried about there being barely enough room for four feet down there and about gforce moving the passengers feet in the way: a separation would certainly help.

 

Just went to get breakfast with my wife in the LM this morning. Nice drive. No discomfort. Two days ago got it out of the shop for a U joint fix.

6025 built by PF has 10 extra centimeters in the cockpit. Makes a world of difference. The wife doesn't complain at all. One thing I should do is tint the top of the windshield, since the sun can be bright.

 

Mroz,

How did they get the extra 10 cm? Does this mean that the wife does not have to scrunch he knees up? I found it real disconceting if I went to put my foot on the dead pedal and someone's foot there already.

I also found it fun but you had to know the tendency that when adding power going around a corner on a city street that the car wanted to go sideways and that opposite lock would be necessary.

Jeff

 

wheres the 10cm - eg is it length, width or height.
and how did they do it - eg chassis alteration or simply by moving things around ?

 

The GTO was set up with the oil reservoir on the passenger side making for better weight distribution to balance the driver. I noticed that when I gave fast rides to people--at Willow Springs, for example--the car felt out of balance with a passenger aboard.

Do similar dynamics come into play with the LM?

 

GTOs laden with driver and navigator seemed pretty well balanced in the Tour de France...and also do so in classic rallies today.

DCN

 

Perhaps they were set up differently or maybe it was just a matter of the extra weight affecting the handling.