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250P #0816 won both 1963 and 1964 Le Mans.

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by miurasv, Aug 15, 2018.

  1. clive beecham

    clive beecham Rookie

    Mar 28, 2009
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    Yes, the front sub frame, which is a relatively small bit of the bolt on front chassis, carries the chassis stamp which for some is the identifying bit for a D. That is what was discovered
    some 20 years later. In Jaguar D types, there is nothing like a proper full chassis frame as in Ferraris. Amazingly, these front chassis frame/stamps often just appeared from the scrapyard. Incredible isn’t it?
     
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  2. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
    455
    Instead of being sure about RM/Ferrari claims, let's just see this very documention and avoid more seller's support and expert bruhaha ...
     
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  3. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    Timo
    Or at minimum offer them for reviewing by some universally accepted and respected third-party entity willing to publicly announce/verify their authenticity ?
     
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  4. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

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    There could be multiple reasons they can't totally reveal all the data to us plebs.

    That could work, perhaps get Cavallino Mag to write an article on the car, would help the car sell and the reporter could work with Classiche to discuss the discovery in the article.
     
  5. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    Well, I was thinking more in terms of "universally accepted and respected third-party", not necessarily commercially intertwined entities. :rolleyes:
     
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  6. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
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    David Clarke drove P2/3 0826 and P4 0856 on the road as did Dean Martin Jr and Paul Pappalardo with 412P 0850. The non synchromesh gearbox is perhaps a challenging thing on a P car?
     
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  7. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    David Clarke had a real interest in getting the proper spec for the shock absorbers in those cars. The spec came from a trial and error approach that eventually gave him the feel that he wanted. Prancing Horses indeed!
     
  8. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
    455
    Some would certainly prefer seeing face-to-face the mysterious find overlooked from Bardinon. I do not understand why such evidence is hold back and not publicly shown if all is clear and nothing to hide. This could eliminate more expert tingle-tangle and - most important - document history.
     
  9. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
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    What data can't be totally revealed to the plebs?
     
  10. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

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    Sorry guys, replied to the wrong thread. Mods please delete this post! Thanks
     
  11. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

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    Supposedly the smoking gun proof from Ferrari's records that show 0816 was the winner of Le Mans in 64, too.

    As I said before, they will probably never release it, which is stupid, but seems to be the tradition when talking about dealers selling cars claiming fantastic history for 8 figure sums.
     
  12. 335s

    335s Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2007
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    T. Monma
    As I said previously:

    "As for all of this hulla ballooo, be careful about passing judgement-on ANY of these 3 P-Cars- until ALL the facts are in: I'm betting most posters have no idea where they found these "lost, recently discovered" records....its all going to come out, of this I AM certain...."

    I would once again advise readers, hobbyists, and all the rest curious about such things: unless you are there, have been there, and were a party to exams/and scans, be extremely cautious about casting opinions based solely upon: "what my buddy told me", or " what is in so and so's book," or, what such and such expert or "historian" said, or-even worse: what I read on the : "internet."

    This entire tale is far more complex, convoluted, and political than might otherwise first appear....
    Interestingly, if people actually stopped and thought about the assertions made to date, used some simple logic and timelines-combined with factual adherence to the realities of how the world actually functioned in 1963/4/5 timeline-some truly stunning conclusions would arise.
    All of which would really start to twist your melons!
    This conclusion I refer to, you will have to noodle out yourselves. But, ALL the breadcrumbs are in a trail which any reasonable man of this age, ought to be able to connect...
    Here is where it gets complicated: this logically arrived at conclusion-falls on its face, based on the real world results to date!
    Therefore, what conclusion must one make NOW?

    This entire episode is interesting in one final aspect: The "Red Book" cert documents which Ferrari charges customers for, explicitly excludes verification or validation of ANY car's racing history-period.
    Check it out: this is clearly stated in their paperwork: this you can easily verify for yourselves.
    That said, WHY would the "factory" "quietly"(surreptitiously?)leak such volatile and incendiary information on the eve of a worldwide sale, when it is strictly been their own policy to date, to do just the opposite?
    This is my last comment on the matter, as I have said: it will ALL come out in the wash eventually-just not likely in the manner most think or expect-IN MY OPINION ....

    Enjoy the second act of this five act Shakespeare-ian tragedy...For example:
    Part 1: The exposition which "outlines the situation". The introduction of the main characters. The commencement of "the action."
    Part 2: Development, continuing "action', and the introduction of "complications."
    Part 3: The climax-or crisis, as the case might be called. Which brings it all to a head, so to speak...It is in this phase that a change of
    direction is supposed to occur, and or "understanding" is precipitated...
    Part 4: Typically, this includes additional development which invariably leads to...
    Part 5: The final "crisis of action" or revelation and or resolutions are explained...

    think of Othello....Life truly imitates art, it seems: "it aint over till the fat lady sings..."
    Ve Ri Tas-'76

     
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  13. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

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    I know these people can and do drive their rear engined prototypes and that it is eminently possible to do so but is it as enjoyable to do so as a 250TR or GTO? Also how many people find the 275P, stunning though it is, as beautiful as the 250GTO and how many truly understand them. Its all just top trumps though and if I was a Ferrari mega collector, like Wexner, Lauren, Walton, Stroll, maybe even Loh, I would be snapping this up and whats $40 million when you are a billionaire?
     
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  14. Lusso123

    Lusso123 Formula Junior
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    RM Sotheby's and Ferrari Classiche seem to 'work together' quite well. They should join forces to write fiction books, they would be very good at that.
     
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  15. lgs

    lgs Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2006
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    #90 lgs, Sep 24, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
    Cavallino could join the club as well. They promoted RM’s ‘6045’ sale in 2014 with a ‘very conclusive documentation’ and a special seminar with experts. Classiche provided the Certificate. But neither the ‘very conclusive documentation’ nor the Certificate got ever disclosed. And after the car got ‘sold’, it instantly vanished and just RM’s sale catalogue remained for history’s sake.
     
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  16. Christian.Fr

    Christian.Fr F1 World Champ

    Jun 9, 2005
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    Marschall, where did you find these books? RM site?
     

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