250PF vs. 250GTE vs. 330America vs. 365GTC/4

330 2+2 - best of both worlds! I had planned to keep mine for a little while and move on but ended up falling in love. If you are in the area, you can visit me this spring and I'll take you for a spirited drive.

The 4 liter engine's torque makes it easier to use and makes up for the slightly larger size. The series 2 drivetrain is bomb proof (no overdrive, 1 cam per bank and 3 carbs in the middle). Very much a '60s Ferrari V-12 in style and feel.

Women seem to prefer the styling over the later - angular - cars (but not as much as a Lusso). These cars look much better in person than in pictures!

Very affordable purchase price and not bad running costs (maintenance slightly easier to earlier cars, much easier than 365 GTC 4). You will not have to sell the Boxer.

Pre '68 cars have no emissions issues and are welcome in many events.

Regards,

Art S.

 

Add the 365 GT 2+2 to the mix. This gets a somewhat newer car than the earlier 250/330 cars. It adds standard (though NOT modern) air conditioning, a huge trunk, realistic short distance use with 4 people, and classic styling that echoes the 500 Superfast. I have 3 contemporary road tests, one by the famous writer Karl Ludvigsen, and could send copies to anyone seriously considering a Queen.

Regards,

Jim Walker
365 GT 2+2 #12451

 

The shop that maintains my 330 2+2 has a 365GT4 2+2 in from time to time. They told me that relative to the 1960's 2-cam 250's and 330's regular maintenance as well as repairs and reconditioning for the 365 4-cam cars are high, for no mysterious reasons.

The last time I was there, late summer 2004 for elective but highly advisable replacement of Silentblok suspension bushings (yes--$$$), they thought that perhaps I had sold my car because I hadn't been in since routine maintenance in March. Nope, just driving a lot and having a good time, keeping a vigilant eye at all times.

I thought about a 365 GTC4 as a relatively reasonable step up to a hairier beast, but discarded the idea in favor of keeping the 330 longterm and steadily continuing to improve it.

ArtS's comments mirror my observations about owning a 330 2+2. Regarding female attention, I looked at the 365 GT4/400 2+2's as part of the spectrum of feasible Ferraris. My wife nixed those in favor of the earlier 2+2's, for styling reasons alone. Last weekend I was filling up, dressed in weekend slob mode, when I noticed a very beautiful young woman--body and face of a movie star--admiring my car intensely. I was out her sight line and you better believe that the gut got sucked in and the old jeans pulled up before she walked by to pay for her gas. She didn't even notice me--just kept her eye on the 330.

 

Sorry to hijack the thread, but Scott, you have a PM.

 

I would second the 365GT 2+2 as a nice compromise between the true "vintage" 250GTE or PF and the newer C/4.

I wouldn't be scared of the C/4s maintenance requirements-- I don't think it will be much, if any, worse than your Boxer.

I would really recommend looking at each of them. My guess is that the newer cars would be better for what you want to do, so I would lean toward the 365 2+2 or C/4. More than anything I think it depends on which one appeals most to you.

 

From experience, the 250 will not be pleasing to the lady for any kind of a trip, long or short. The 330 probably better and the 365 would be my choice if these were the requirements. For me an old 250 with rattles, uncomfortable seats, smoke, and all the rest, fits just fine.

 

My standard spiel on C4 with some additions relevant to your questions and the other comments.

As the factory intended, this is a wonderful touring car, but not a sports car. I have never had mine on the track, but Jeff Littrell (FCA-SoCal chapter) has. He says it holds its own, but clearly was never meant for the track. A hot Honda will blow you away...street or track, but it's still a Honda at the end of the day.

It's very comfortable on long trips, albeit louder than a Lexus <g>. HUGE trunk...2 sets of golf clubs and weekend suitcase are no problem. The back seats fold down and there is room there for even more. That's about all the rear seat is good for, though. There is only about 2 inches clearance between back of the front seat and the back seat, when I drive.

I'm 6'3", 34" inseam. Still, there is 3-4 inches of headroom for me. My legs are a bit bent, but I've been in worse cars.

Parts and service seem high, BUT if you buy a well sorted one, they are quite robust. Also, I have no ready frame of reference as far as Ferraris for my qualitative "high" statement. All my previous cars were (hush) German.

They hold their value well. On average, C4s have gone up a few percent, since I bought mine...but that's not why I bought a C4.

I have learned a lot about the car, because it is so mechanical and not much computerized. That was one reason why I went with an older car...plus I take "dinosaur" as a red badge of courage!

The water pump is easy to remove with the engine in the car, esp. if you have a lift, but I don't and it's not necessary.

The C4 has a semi-electronic ignition system in which Dinoplex ignition modules are used to boost the spark. This unloads the points and saves them.

The carbs (6 Weber DCOE side drafts) are easy to adjust, but getting them synched is harder and removal can be frustrating.

The carbs are tough to take off, because the nuts are hard to get at, but you may not need to ever do this. The distributors are tucked back up under the body behind the engine, but they are not that hard to get at, if you only want to replace points and wiring.

Once set, the points, carbs,and timing are reliable.

A couple friends with C4s have replaced the Dinoplex ignition boxes with MSD 6A units. The Dinoplexes are $1300-$1500 each. The MSDs are $150 each. You need two, but the switch is easy, as I understand. I plan to do mine this summer. MSD will, in fact, retrofit your Dinoplex cases with MSD internals so that there is not additional mounting and the car is dead stock for concours.

The mouse-fur interior can be maintained easily with good leather products (I use Leatherique), but if it's already too far gone, then there are companies that sell / replace the material (WWW.REORIGINALS.COM).

The sound is great, from idle to redline. I have an exhaust from Stebro, but it's not much different in sound than stock, which I still have. Stock headers...the Stebro is the exhaust only.

Info on service that I have had done at FoH.

R&R engine in preparation for 30k service - 36 hours (book), parts - $500
R&R Distributors - 10 hours (book), parts - $200 US
Fluid replace (antifr., oil, brake, AC, trans) - 11 hours, parts/fluids - $700
Valves adj - 8 hours (book), engine out of car already, parts - $60
Front and rear main seals - 1.5 hours, parts - $70
Reseal timing cover - 29 hours, parts - $230
Replace drive belts - 6.5 hours, parts - $70
R&R Carbs - 4 hours, parts - $270 for all 6, inc. new needle valves and seats

Based on my experience (or inexperience), some of the book times are too much time and some are too little, so I suppose it works out in the end.

Various info at
http://home.earthlink.net/~f365gtc4/365gtc4.htm
http://home.earthlink.net/~f365gtc4/365gtc4buyersguide.htm
http://home.earthlink.net/~f365gtc4/Ignition%20Summary.htm
http://home.earthlink.net/~f365gtc4/SeatbeltWiring.htm
http://home.earthlink.net/~f365gtc4/StarterRemoval.htm

 

Right offhand, no, but you've got to go with what you want. Two or three people tried to steer me out of the 330 2+2 direction for various reasons. I bought one anyway, and have been happy with it, good decision or not.

 

Just echoing sentiments of others here:

The 250 series drive like 50's cars, which is a ton of fun if you're driving, perhaps less fun if you are a passenger. I personally love 'em, but that's because I'm almost always driving!

The later 330 Series 2-Cams, and the 365 2-Cams really modernize the car considerably, adding creature comforts. The 365 2+2 can easily seat 4 adults, and is surprisingly fun on backroads. But of course these comforts come at a cost, and that cost is more potential things that can (and do) break.

Cant say much about the 365 GTC/4, since I've never driven or owned one. But I'm sure it's equally fun, and even more modern feeling.

My only suggestion is to wait for a good one of any type to come along, and buy it. If you've done your homework, you'll be able to sell it at cost without much trouble, and move on to the next model, should you desire. Don't buy a car with needs unless you're sure it's the one you want, and you're planning on keeping it for 10 years at least. That way you can ammortize the large repair bills you're going to get!

 

YES! was just noticing that last night on a ruby red car @ Fantasy Junction....really has Superfast lines.....
pretty slick for a +2......

 

Here is a completely unbiased and impartial advice: buy a PF Coupe!

But honestly, my advice is this: buy the most beautiful Ferrari your budget will support. You should buy a vintage Ferrari with your senses only. Wisdom and judgment should not apply. Performance, maintenance, parts availability, comfort, and any other logical measure are yardsticks that should apply to used cars.

john

 

I agree, if you want to get in on nearly the ground floor with one of the greatest Ferrari sleepers of all time, you better hurry. If you can find one that is.

 

Shhhhh !

 

Ralph,

You seem like a man who could use a little nudging to take that plunge.

john

 

parkerfe-

In my opinion the 330 GT is the best choice. I had owned a couple. Great torque and very reliable and easy to maintain. The last one I owned, many years ago I had put over 150K trouble free miles. Outside of all of the routine maintenance, the only items I had to replace, were the electric fuel pump, valve adjustment screws, and water pump seal and impellor collar, and the electric radiator colling fan. That was it. The car handles great. I drove it in all kinds of weather including heavy snow (did not intend to be that way). Took 3,000 mile trips and used it as a commuter.

At around 86K miles, I had the head redone with the steel guides and seals, popped in some new forged pistons with slightly higher compression, had the cams reground by Crane to the comp spec cams, and rejetting the carbs and put bigger chokes. It had a little more power than original. Only had to do the guides, but did the other stuff while I had things apart. Had interior redone @ 105K.

Still ran great and would start right up even after sitting for 3 months at a time.

The new cars are nice, but to many electrical issues. I miss it. I miss several of the old ones I had, including the 250s and 275s. None of them were problems. I think if you take the time to find a good one, you will be very happy.

 

WHAT??? 6 carbs, only 4 hours to R&R?? Including changing needle valves and seats??? How about synching them?? Me thinks this is a bit off...

Ken

 

tsyntax's recommendation of the 330 GT was well put, and seems to be spoken from experience.

It certainly confirms the reasons I bought a 330 GT, and reminds me of the pleasures of owning one!

 

Sounds like you want the GTC...I would guess you can find one GTC for every PF, GTE and certainly America out there for sale anyway.
Not everyone likes the simplicity of the early cars-they are absolutely more in keeping with the "buy the engine and get the rest for free" philosophy. No little wheel on the steering wheel to adjust the gas pedal's response.
Enthusiasts are either old car people or they aren't. If you aren't into the old car thing best to keep away. It also helps if you can tell the difference between brake fluid, oil, etc. if you see a tiny drop under the car. With my 330, getting there is always part of the fun (hopefully spring will come soon to DC!)

 

The C4 if set up correctly has very little maintance. - own one for 10years and runs perfectly with the major service 8yr ago-- just need to change fluids.--

Don't you need to service TR/Boxers/308/355/328 at least every 5 yrs regardless of mile??

Annualized out, My porsche costed more to maintain- sold that for an xke 12ys ago.

 

Frank,

Track me down when I am stateside and I'll let you drive the 365. It will be very very similar to a C4.