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275 GTB chassis finish painting

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by paul33, Oct 1, 2021.

  1. paul33

    paul33 Rookie
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    Feb 28, 2021
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    Jean-Paul
    Hi All,
    I own a 330 GTC and participate, altogether with my garage, to a complete renovation of a 275 GTB 1966 (pic attached).
    We really wish to achieve this renovation according to the "as built" in 1965 by Scaglietti, if not wrong.
    The body is now ready to be painted and we have one question:
    Originally, how is finished the paint, on the exterior side, of the chassis, below: is it plain matte black or "grainy paint ie Blackson like" (sorry for my English since in France).
    Same question for the exterior wheel wells (matte on my 330 GTC): matte, semi gloss or Blackson grainy.
    Idem for the engine compartment & boot which is satin black on the 330 GTC according to the PFA Judging manual.
    And are there any specific/subtle places to care where the paint could be either body colour (red) or black as for the chassis, so that we choose perfectly the right colour/finish (any pic welcome if tricky to explain).
    I thank in advance those members who can help us and contribute to do the best for the car;
    Best regards,
    Jean-Paul
     

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  3. paul33

    paul33 Rookie
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    NB: Correction to above message: year 1965 (not 1966), short nose.
     
  4. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    I know I’m probably in a very small minority with this belief and while I never saw any “vintage” era Ferraris when they were new, but based on my limited observations and photo documentation of any and all unrestored examples I’ve personally seen over the years & decades I’m fairly convinced that most (or perhaps all) had their chassis, engine bay, trunk, etc (including bottoms of front/rear valances & rocker panels, etc on Daytona era cars) painted flat (matte ?) black with no distinguishable light or imagery reflection.

    Of course today, 9 out 10 fully repainted or restored examples (at least Daytonas) seem to have all that done in semi-gloss…

    Many of the “bolt-on” ancillary components (painted by vendors who made them) were likely often semi-flat/-gloss.

    OTOH, I wouldn’t mind being convinced/proven otherwise.
     
  5. paul33

    paul33 Rookie
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    Thanks Timo for your experienced feedback which sounds reasonable (and what I think as well, but for the under part of the chassis with Blackson paint type if Scalietti used that stuff in 65?).
    Let's wait for any other answers in the coming days based on historical cars or detailed pictures whereas one could distinguish a plain matte from a blackson or semi gloss.
    Best regards,
    jean-paul
     
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  7. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    Jean-Paul, could you try explaining what you mean by “Blackson” ?
     
  8. paul33

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    I thought Blackson was an International Brand name. In Europe it is a well known paint, like tar, very rough and thick and that you paint under the chassis to protect against stones, water. I suppose there is the same kind of coat in USA.
    Sometimes some guys/garages use it to hide crap and rust, no comment!
    jean-Paul
     
  9. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    OK, here it is commonly referred as "Undercoating" or "Chip Guard/Rock Guard" or "Rocker Schutz (by 3M)", etc and as far I know, on cars like 330 GTC or Daytona, it was used only on the inside the fender wells, except on U.S.-market (Berlinetta) Daytonas, in which it was also used to cover (protect ?) the thin sheet metal panels supporting additional heat/sound insulation below the cabin floor.

    And yes, lots of people use it on all kinds of cars, not only for its intended purpose, but also to "hide" any potential evidence of damage or rust, etc...
    I've also seen many repainted/restored Daytonas having it on their front and rear valance panels, perhaps to prevent rock chips, hide some issues or ... ?
     
  10. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Rookie
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    whatever black you choose to use, just vary the sheen slightly. one vendors matte may have a different sheen than another supplier.
    with respect to Daytonas, not even the wrinkle paint has the same degree of wrinkling on various parts.
     
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  12. paul33

    paul33 Rookie
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    Thanks for these feedbacks.
    For instance on my 330 GTC, the fender wheel wells are painted flat matte black, as the tubular frame of all the chasis, while the flat horizontal panels under seats and habitacle are treated with this Chip Rockguard as you call it (thick & rough black) for, indeed protection and insulation as you mention. I do not know if it was painted like that by Pininfarina in 66?
    But my question is purely about the 275 GTB in 65 when going out of the factory, to paint it to day “as built”.
    Let’see if other members have a solid point of view/findings on this precise car.
    looking forward,
    Jean-Paul
     
  13. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    Perhaps some of the acknowledged restoration experts could chime in--MPI, David Carte, Paul Russell, Butch Dennison, Cremonini, Bacchelli e Villa?
     
  14. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

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    And 275 expert, Dyke.
     
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  15. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    Scaglietti, at that time, applied red oxide primer first then applied a low-sheen black paint. The wheel wells and under-bonnet were then sprayed with a tar-like substance, which was likely applied hot. Unlike the way we restore these cars nowadays, this material would be applied haphazardly with overspray all over various nearby components.

    john
     
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  16. christc

    christc Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2013
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    I agree with John on this. Most original cars I saw out of the 250 and 275 era were like this. Jean-Paul, I had several different paint samples spayed and choose a matt with an even texture. I can look up the company and code as you might get them in France.
     
  17. paul33

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    #John, thanks a lot for your sharp findings on this matter: it is very clear.
    Due to my 330 GTC ownership, I begin to know her details, but no knowledge on 275 GTB at the moment, but I learn thanks to persons as you are.
    So, for the bonnet, when you mean a tar-like spray under bonnet, may I understand that the frame is matte painted with this tar on the flat panel(s), a little bit as where there is the quilted canvas on the 330 GTC.Or fully sprayed up to the edge of the external body paint with the risk, as you point out, of over-spraying black substance?
    So according to your experience, out of the 4 wheel wells and this under bonnet, there is NO tar-like spraying, for instance on the underbody panels below the seats.
    #Dave: Dyke Ridgley, is there book or publications with pictures showing the 275 GTB specifics as there is for my 330 GTC with the PFA "as built" manual?
    #Christopher: thanks as well, propose to follow up with you on our PM.
    Thanks again to all,
    Best,
    Jean-Paul
     
  18. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    @Jean-Paul: What is the chassis number of the shortnosed 275 GTB that you are restoring? Thank you.

    As for the black tar just google "dinitrol corrosion protection".

    Marcel Massini
     
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  19. paul33

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    dear Marcel,
    thanks for the tar reference Dinitrol.
    As for the chassis #, I don't know it presently, and will ask to the garage.
    Regards,
    Jean-Paul
     
  20. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    you are sure marcel F used dinitrol at that time already. I thaught they started later.
     
  21. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

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    If I recall correctly, Dyke @DWR46 and Sue started their tenure as 275 owners in the early 1970's and he will surely know.
     
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  22. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    According to Dinitrol website, they’ve offered undercoating “solution” since 1947, but when or even if Ferrari used their products during 275 era is unclear.
     
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  23. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    JP, to answer your question with regard to the Scaglietti car, the entire underbody is painted black, then that tar-like material is applied only to the wheel wells as stone guard. It's also applied to the underside of the bonnet for noise reduction. Hope this answers your question.

    john
     
  24. paul33

    paul33 Rookie
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    Thanks John,
    It is clear cut now with your conclusive comment. Christopher tells me broadly the same with paint references on PM and we will proceed accordingly.
    It is a pleasure to exchange with experts as you are.
    Best,
    Jean-Paul
     
  25. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    If you were bookmaker, what odds would you give for these companies/gentlemen to engage in topics like this on public forums ? :rolleyes:
     
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  26. enio45

    enio45 Formula 3
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    Timo - i was going to say that as well......i don't think any but maybe 1 person looks at this site time to time, let alone comment.

    This is not a criticism of them , just a fact......
     
  27. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    This is primarily a hobbyist forum. If you drop in for a visit then it should be in that spirit, regardless of who you are.

    john
     

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