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275 gtb suspension/brake rebuild

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Vintage V12, Sep 9, 2005.

  1. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jan 5, 2002
    20,268
    Portland, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Don
    Did you do the carbs in-house, or send them out?
     
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  3. Vintage V12

    Vintage V12 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2004
    1,442
    All work is being done by the staff at Patrick Ottis Co.
     
  4. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
    9,263
    CHNDLR
    Full Name:
    Scott


    Where can you find the correct nylock nuts with yellow inserts?
    Thank you
     
  5. JonBrent

    JonBrent Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2003
    732
    Heaven on Earth
    Full Name:
    JB
    Ok, I'll feed the troll. Mr Knowitall has obviously named himself properly. You really should take a deep breath and reconsider before you cr@p all over someones business.

    Pat Ottis' place is a fantastic shop, and the work will be done properly the first time. He is a Pebble judge, so the finishes will be 100% correct, and his mechanics are first rate (ref Motob here) and have been there for years.

    I am pro DIY on most jobs, as I do it for fun, but not everyone has the time nor inclination to tackle this type of work.
     
  6. mrknowitallf40

    mrknowitallf40 Formula Junior

    Feb 20, 2005
    300
    Please post the shop rate and estimate for the shop that you are endorsing. The fact that he is a Pebble Beach judge only adds to my questions about how much he charges. Have you ever seen the quality of the workmanship on a factory Ferrari chassis ( I was at one time an aircraft and missle certified welder)? A five year old could weld and paint better than anything turned out from their chassis builder in the 60's. As for the plating side of things, I doubt that anyone today could duplicate the low quality that was available in Italy in the 1960's. Should one pay the same hourly rate for a ferrari engine rebuild as for a suspeneion cleaning? How much ferrari expertise is involved in that? To add insult to injury, my 1965 shelby mustang will soon eclipse my 1970 Daytona in value and that 275. How many more years before it is worth more that the car in question? Your friend may be a judge at Pebble Beach, but I have restored the suspension on several second place cars. Just for a laugh, how much did he quote for the suspension "restoration". If he is so proud of his work let's see the estimate, he may even get more customers. I can't wait for your reply! The hardest part of that job is either rebuilding the calipers (which is probably done by White Post) or the alignment at discount tire.
     
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  8. shaughnessy

    shaughnessy Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 1, 2004
    1,795
    Wolfeboro NH
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    Thomas E Shaughnessy
    White Post is the last place any/nearly all Ferrari professionals go. Apparently you are not the receipient of their work, and rework.
    BTW Brake and suspension work has a certain Liability attached to it, no place for amatuers.

    Dear mrknowitall, please go away. Your comments are disruptive, inexperienced and have no merit.

    Suspension rebuilds start at $12,000, with over $6500 in parts and plating alone, these parts and services cann't be purchased at Kragan,PepBoys or White Post. So at 80/100/hr that is 75/60 hours to do all 4 corners

    Now why do you not tell this fine group, which Ferrari(s) you own and what experience you bring to the table.
     
  9. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    I've restored a car or two and have won an award or two. I own a private shop and have a full time staff that works on my cars. Firstly it takes a massive amount of work to restore and maintain exotic cars. People who are knowledgeable and skilled are becoming as rare as the carbs on my 166s. As things become rare they start to cost more. Those carbs I spoke of for example are worth about 18K each.

    Very few people today want to take the time to learn how to properly, for example, set up a Lucas Mechanical Fuel Injection system. There's also the issue of safety. When you're bombing thru the night Stage of the Giro di SIcilia in your P3/P4 it's nice to know that the 135psi of fuel that's flowing through the chassis tube under your butt, about to travel through 35 feet of fuel lines is unlikely to leak at in the vicinity of one the 24 sparking plugs.

    Shops that can do the quality of work that Patrick Otis does are few. That is not to say that an owner can not or should not become involved or ask questions even experts can be wrong about various things and in the end everyone should decide for them selves what they want out of an restoration. Only by studying and asking questions can one make an enlightened decision.

    A lost of the cost is dependant on location. Shop space costs more in California than in Alabama. Regulations also add to the cost. Insurance costs have caused the price of restoration to go up as well.
    My cost, keeping in mind that this is private work and I don't need the insurance that would be necessary to do outside work is around $55. per hour.

    In the business that I run we make about 10X our cost per hour, per hour.

    Looking at the quality of the work Patrick does IMO if he charges less than $550 per hour you're getting a bargain.
     
  10. mrknowitallf40

    mrknowitallf40 Formula Junior

    Feb 20, 2005
    300
    Jim, you are in a position to afford the best of the best. I have many friends that are Ferrari mechanics and exotic car restoration professionals. I know the business from the inside out. I know that these shops rely on a small number of well heeled clients for the bulk of their income. Labor is billed by the hour whether it is for cleaning or engine building. Tom, you seem to brow beat your customers when they dare question your advice or pricing. The threat of being banished from buying your parts is a common theme you use. My fine Irish mother used to tell me "Make little of your own and the world will make little of you". Seems like great advice. There are many people like to do their own work. Help them out. "You guys" don't operate like that. You have to create "value" by being secretive. I am sure that you will succeed in trading your document box for a complete car. Their is a sucker born every minute, how true. I like to drive my cars (91 F40, 1970 Daytona) and I enjoy working on them. I put myself through engineering school painting cars and doing body work. I have painted about 100 cars to date. I'm an expert welder, fabricator, and metal worker. I'm in the metal finishing business( plating, spraying, coating). My salary is higher that your total parts sales in a year. I'm in a position to afford good help but I believe in the concept of valued added. I believe that the farmer should make more that the shop keeper. I saw the posts of your Daytona restoration and I am willing to guess that there is quite a bit of $5/hr labor in your restoration. All it really takes to restore a car is a lot of effort. Shall we chat about how much it really costs to paint a Ferrari? Let's do. So far only a second at Pebble Beach. There are lots of shops that do quality work at fair prices. Let's remember that Ferrari's are not known for their quality craftsmanship ! My reason for posting in the first place was your apparent treatment of your "customers". Be nice for a change will ya?
     
  11. Vintage V12

    Vintage V12 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2004
    1,442
    It is too bad a person cannot ask a simple question without it turning into a this. I guess it's better to keep projects to yourself.
     
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  13. GTSguy

    GTSguy Formula Junior

    Oct 25, 2004
    615
    Northern California
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    Jon
    It is great to have first hand accounts of various Ferrari projects in FChat. I wish there were more. Tom is right, there's lots of misinformation posted. Such is always the case - I hope that this doesn't disuade people from useful discourse. In time we come to know those who are trustworthy.

    It is too bad that some (too many) people come here to show off their lack of social and communication skills. In time it seems that too many interesting threads evolve into shouting matches. Frankly, Ferrari's seem to attract this behavior more than any other marque I know (and collect). FChat needs to start banning this behavior its getting in the way.

    For what its worth, I have known Patrick Ottis (and have used his services) for years. He and his staff are first rate. That so-called Ferrari experts abound should not be confused with the fact that real Ferrari experts (and gentleman) still exist.

    Vintagev12nut, let's hear more!
     
  14. shaughnessy

    shaughnessy Formula 3
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    Apr 1, 2004
    1,795
    Wolfeboro NH
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    Thomas E Shaughnessy
    Matt:

    Just like I said before, leave the driving to your chosen professional
    The Patrick Ottis Bus company, sit down and enjoy the ride. Your fare will be reasonable.

    See what happens when you stand up and ask questions, amoungst Chatters.
     
  15. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    I've never gotten higher than a second at Pebble either. :)

    I also realize that until you have enought work to "privatise" it doesn't make sense to attempt too. My $55. per hour figure is simply what it costs me all in to run my shop and compensate those who help me realize my dreams in what I consider to be a fair manner as a private shop not a business.

    My figures make me believe that if one does run restoration as a business it would not be out of line to charge more than what I have found the costs to be in the NY Metro area.
     
  16. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2004
    373
    Newco Products in Chatsworth, California advertises yellow insert nylock nuts, but can be expensive. Detail dimensions may vary from originals, as metric dimensional standards have changed since the 1960's. You may have to re-plate to match original finish.
     
  17. shaughnessy

    shaughnessy Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 1, 2004
    1,795
    Wolfeboro NH
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    Thomas E Shaughnessy
    For those who do not know, I do not sell service parts. I do not sell suspension rebuild kits.

    I have purchased the last group of complete suspension components for
    a 275 and two 365GTC's from GT Car Parts and Ted Rutland's.

    My parts business is a configutation and used parts business, with the occasional smaller items bought in inventory purchases. Need heads, drum brakes, engine, block, crank,distributors, magnetos,wheels,glass,tools give me a call.

    Need service items please call my competetors, they do that job well.
     
  18. synchro

    synchro F1 Veteran

    Feb 14, 2005
    9,263
    CHNDLR
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    Scott

    I found these here:
    http://www.newcoproducts.com/fasteners/specialized_fasteners/specialized_fasteners.htm

    Thank you,
    I also see a bunch of other neat stuff to - never new about this source!
     
  19. Finitele

    Finitele Formula 3

    Sep 26, 2007
    1,351
    DBC
    Full Name:
    DIR
    Any more photos?
     
  20. Vintage V12

    Vintage V12 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2004
    1,442
    I have tons of photos from start to finish. What details are you looking for? Patrick Ottis and his crew did an amazing job on this car. Not only do the mechanicals look OEM but the car runs and drives as it should. You may want to look at my thread called 275gtb returning to life. I also use the user name 275gtb-2 . Are you restoring a 275gtb?
     
  21. prance

    prance Formula Junior

    May 4, 2005
    510
    Agoura Hills
    Full Name:
    morris
    Matt, you may want to paint the spring codes on your springs.
    The rear springs have white paint on the 3rd coil down and medium blue on the 4th coil down.
    The front springs have white on the 4th spring down.
    The paint is hand painted with a brush and is painted 180 degrees of the coil and 180 degrees of the diameter of the coil.
    Looks great, Morris
     
  22. Maximillian575GTC

    Sep 28, 2006
    115
    NAS/NCE/YYZ
    Full Name:
    Max
    you sir, are apparently a one-man restoration shop with all of that fabrication and welding and plating and spraying and coating and 100 (natch...) paint jobs under your belt. how much do YOU charge per hour? :D
    care to share some lovely snaps of your wonderful, albeit oddly 'famous', duo?

    thanks in advance.
    max

    p.s. kindly post in a separate thread... this one has the attributes of a 'real' topic and discussion, and its rather unfortunate to have it sullied by one's ramblings...

    p.p.s. Matt, keep those pictures coming! the 275 I had was not at all...umm... "original" as I thought it was. With some time freeing up soon I'm thinking about taking the plunge again and 'doing it right'. You're perseverance is inspiring.
     
  23. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

    Feb 24, 2005
    899
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Steve Hill
    Beautiful.

    Any reason you went with a tie-rod end with a zerx fitting?

    Steve
     
  24. Vintage V12

    Vintage V12 Formula 3

    Aug 11, 2004
    1,442
    My only guess was that this was the only thing available.
     
  25. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,184
    Berkeley, CA
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    The original OEM tie-rods ends have been NLA for quite some time now. The ends with the grease zerk were all that were available at the time the car was done.
     
  26. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

    Feb 24, 2005
    899
    West Coast
    Full Name:
    Steve Hill
    Brian,

    Interesting. I've been able to get the correct Daytona tie rod ends without the zerx fitting. I didn't realize the ones for 275 GTBs wouldn't be available. I will say, having put some of the tie rod ends with zerx fittings on one of my Daytonas that it seems to be a beefier part. However, for the cars that are more original, I use the older style ones.

    Steve
     
  27. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,184
    Berkeley, CA
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    Steve,
    Where did you source the tie-rods ends, and who is the manufacturer (TRW?).

    Oh, and it's a Zerk fitting, not Zerx (Oscar Zerk would appreciate it)
    Thanks,
    Brian
     

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