296 GTB V6 Power and Torque details | FerrariChat

296 GTB V6 Power and Torque details

Discussion in '296' started by inox, Aug 3, 2021.

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  1. inox

    inox Formula Junior

    Oct 11, 2017
    350
    296 GTB - Technical specifications

    POWERTRAIN
    Type V6 – 120° – Turbo
    Overall displacement 2992 cm3
    Bore and stroke 88 mm x 82 mm
    Max. power output ICE* 663 cv
    Max. power output hybrid system** 610 kW (830 cv) at 8000 rpm
    Max. torque 740 Nm at 6250 rpm
    Max. revs 8500 rpm
    Compression ratio 9.4:1
    High voltage battery capacity 7.45 kWh

    * With 98 RON petrol
    ** with eManettino in Qualify mode


    ‐------

    1) I'm a bit surprised that we are not given ICE maximum power rpm. Why?

    2) The maximum torque is so impressive compared to maximum power that is the listed torque from ICE only?

    It is a well known fact that 3- or 6-cylinder ICE is much better for turbo charging than 4- or 8-cylinder unit. But still, this V6 appears to be pushing 247 Nm/litre. SF90 V8 is rated 200 Nm/litre. Is this just too good to be true?
     
  2. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 6, 2003
    24,957
    Las Vegas, NV
    Full Name:
    Ryan Alexander
    Probably going to be around 7000 rpm; these are the specs on the Giulia Quadrifoglio with the same 2.9LTT block:

    Engine Order Code
    EEC
    Engine Type and Required Fuel
    Twin Turbo Premium Unleaded V-6
    Displacement (liters/cubic inches)
    2.9 L/176
    Fuel System
    Gasoline Direct Injection
    Maximum Horsepower @ RPM
    505 @ 6500
    Maximum Torque @ RPM
    443 @ 2500

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  3. inox

    inox Formula Junior

    Oct 11, 2017
    350
    If the torque of 740 Nm is for ICE only, then they should be able to pump out 720+ hp already (Compare to SF90: 800 Nm and 780 hp). Expect to see much higher power figures in top range models then.

    P.S. Where I live, hp = cv = PS
     
  4. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    #4 LVP488, Aug 3, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
    They quote the maximum total power of 830 cv at 8,000 rpm, and the maximum electrical power at 167 cv. To achieve 830 cv with a maximum of 167 cv at 8,000 rpm they need the full 663 cv of the ICE engine. So this maximum power of the ICE engine has to be available at 8,000 rpm.

    edit: btw they say it specifically in the Italian version of the web site, 663 cv @ 8000 giri/min.
     
  5. inox

    inox Formula Junior

    Oct 11, 2017
    350
    Good points.

    There is something mysterious with the power delivery though.

    Torque is rated 740 Nm @ 6250 rpm. When using following torque to power conversion formula:

    cv = Nm × rpm / 7023

    We get:

    740 Nm x 6250 / 7023 = 659 cv

    This means basically that ICE hits maximum power almost immediately after 6250 rpm, i.e. around 6300 rpm.

    Now has Ferrari produced a power unit which starts to linearly increase electric motor power as the revs increase from 6250 rpm to 8000 rpm while ICE power remains constant? Or what the heck is going on here?
     
  6. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    Several hypothesis possible here...
    - the quoted torque could be the combined torque of the hybrid system
    - the power curve of the ICE engine could be almost flat from 6300 to 8000 rpm - in fact, previous Ferrari engines have had that characteristic (the power curve of the 488 climbs up to 6500 rpm and then brutally becomes almost flat up to 8000 rpm)
    - as far as I vaguely remember, an electric engine has a more or less constant torque - which makes indeed its power to linearly increase with its own speed (although there is no mention here of the speed of the electric motor, so no clue whether it increases its speed proportionnally to the ICE)
     
  7. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    They are not even remotely related. The Giulia has a bank angle of 90 degrees, whereas the 296 has a 120 degree V6.


    Most probably the maximum power output of the ICE arrives at 8k RPM, though even at lower RPM it is pretty close to that number.
     
  8. inox

    inox Formula Junior

    Oct 11, 2017
    350
    Yes. That is the case if the given max torque of 740 Nm @ 6250 rpm is for ICE only. However, if the figure is attained with the help of electric motor, things might be quite different.

    In SF90 Stradale, ICE max torque is 800 Nm @ 6000 rpm. If I have understood correctly, electric motor increases the maximum combined torque to 900 Nm in 8th gear only. Or alternatively the extra boost comes from the ICE?
     
  9. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    As per Ferrari's active torque management, maximum torque of the ICE is achieved in the top gear. But it is getting a bit too confusing with such complicated systems nowadays. All we really need to know is how they perform against the stopwatch.
     
  10. inox

    inox Formula Junior

    Oct 11, 2017
    350
    I'm not sure if this assumed torque graph of LaFerrari is real and what is the actual shown rev range, but anyway it gives an impression how electric motor provides its torque:

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Source: http://egarage.com/current-interests/laferrari/

    On this case, electric motor provides only half of its maximum torque at maximum revs.

    Therefore in the case of 296 GTB V6, I'm more and more inclined to think that the listed maximum torque of 740 Nm @ 6250 rpm is a combined torque of ICE and electric motor. The electric motor produces maximum of 315 Nm, but I assume ICE still produces at least 200 Nm/litre i.e. at least 600 Nm. This would be on bar with SF90 V8.
     
  11. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    Interesting - but it does not tell the whole story, because the electrical engine torque curve is apparently related to the ICE rev scale on this graph. I wonder how they manage the electrical engine speed in relation with the ICE speed.
     
  12. inox

    inox Formula Junior

    Oct 11, 2017
    350
    Maserati's 3-litre "Nettuno" V6 has somewhat similar performance figures to Ferrari V6:

    Maserati V6
    630 cv @ 7500 rpm (max 8000 rpm)
    730 Nm @ 3000 - 5500 rpm

    Ferrari V6
    663 cv @ 8000 rpm (max 8500 rpm)
    740 Nm @ 6250 rpm

    Nettuno has F1 derived pre-chamber ignition which allows for a rather high compression ratio of 11.0:1. Ferrari's compression ratio is significantly lower at 9.4:1, but is more advanced in other areas such as using the hot vee configuration. Ferrari's power peak and max revs are 500 rpm higher while torque peak lasts 750 rpm longer.

    As Maserati MC20 is not a hybrid, the listed torque is certainly for ICE only. Given the similarity of figures between the two engines, maybe Ferrari's listed torque is ICE specific after all.
     
  13. inox

    inox Formula Junior

    Oct 11, 2017
    350
    I think this 296 GTB Product information sheet more or less confirms the torque figure is for ICE:

    [​IMG]

    Image originally posted here:
    The all-new 296GTB
     
  14. inox

    inox Formula Junior

    Oct 11, 2017
    350
    This is intresting info about Maserati's Nettuno engine:

    No Hot-Vee?
    All the cool kids (AMG, BMW M, Audi RS, Porsche, Cadillac, McLaren, etc.) are snuggling their twin-turbochargers down in the valley of their 90-degree vees. So why does Maserati stick with inboard intake, outboard exhaust? Valentini's official answer: They couldn't find a way to achieve 210 hp/liter in a hot-vee configuration that was both reliable and sufficiently clean. He also noted that this arrangement typically raises the center of gravity. Another potential contributing factor this fashion-forward Italian brand might have been hesitant to say in so many words: hot vees are ugly; carbon-fiber intake covers are much prettier.

    Source: https://www.motortrend.com/features/2022-maserati-mc20-nettuno-v-6-engine-tech/

    So Ferrari managed to pump out 221 hp/litre, but they also opened the hot-vee to 120 degrees.
     
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  15. inox

    inox Formula Junior

    Oct 11, 2017
    350
    Someone has nicely gathered these 3 pics from Ferrari site to a single image:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image source: Спортгибрид 296 GTB дополнил гамму Ferrari - Новости - Авторейтинг (autorating.ru)

    1) Is the fuel tank under the battery? It looks almost like the fuel tank extends under the ICE vee. Not sure if that can be true, but at least there is now room as hot exhausts are not there anymore.

    2) Battery capacity is 7.45 kWh, so the battery pack apparently apparently weights around 70 kg. SF90 Stradale has slightly larger battery with 7.9 kWh, which at least according to Ferrari SF90 Stradale Review (2021) | Autocar weights 72 kg. Given that ICE is 30 kg lighter than the V8, combined ICE+battery add only 40 kg over F8 Tributo. Yet still 296 GTB dry weight is 140 kg over F8 Tributo (1470 kg vs 1330 kg). That would essentially mean that other parts of the hybrid system should weight around 100 kg. Not sure how much more rigid the car has been made, but on the other hand it is also smaller.

    3) Does someone know what is the capacity of LaFerrari battery pack?
     
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  16. inox

    inox Formula Junior

    Oct 11, 2017
    350
    LaFerrari battery pack appears to be 2.3 kWh, so it is much smaller than in SF90 Stradale and 296 GTB. But LaFerrari isn't plugin hybrid like these newer models.
     
  17. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 2, 2003
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    Bro
    Any options price list published yet ??
     
  18. SECRET

    SECRET Formula Junior
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 19, 2007
    934
    I posted it here
     
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  19. 350MH83

    350MH83 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2014
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    Denmark
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    Max
    What do you mean it isnt plug in hybrid?
     
  20. inox

    inox Formula Junior

    Oct 11, 2017
    350
    #20 inox, Sep 23, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2021
    It means that you can't charge LaFerrari KERS batteries via power cable (at least not easily) and allow electric drive only (for any meaningful distance).

    https://www.ferrari.com/ko-KR/magazine/articles/hybrid-power-unleashed-LaFerrari-to-the-296GTB

    Unlike LaFerrari, which produced its KERS energy internally, both the SF90 Stradale and the 296 GTB utilise plug-in hybrid technology, providing each with 25 kilometres of pure electric range.
     
  21. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    98,533
    Vegas baby
    I passed a dealership in LA the other day that had a SF90 in the showroom. It was hooked up to this giant cable.

    I'm thinking..... why? Is this thing that fragile that you can't even let it sit in a dealer showroom without a charging cable hooked up 24/7?
     
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  22. pk328

    pk328 Karting

    Oct 16, 2003
    155
    Nottingham, UK
    Full Name:
    Paul
    The LaFerrari needed to be plugged in to a suitcase sized battery conditioner every few days - hope that's not the same with the SF90 or 296 as that would severely limit their touring potential.
     
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  23. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    Only if sat parked.


    Then again they are not really tourers, especially the SF90 with its non-existent boot.
     
  24. inox

    inox Formula Junior

    Oct 11, 2017
    350
    Speaking of luggage space, it seems that Ferrari has "forgot" to list boot volume of 296 GTB. Or has someone seen the figure?
     
  25. pk328

    pk328 Karting

    Oct 16, 2003
    155
    Nottingham, UK
    Full Name:
    Paul
    For how many days can it sit without a conditioner?
     

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