296 Values and Used Market | Page 35 | FerrariChat

296 Values and Used Market

Discussion in '296' started by Mrwatchdawg, Aug 31, 2023.

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  1. 09Scuderia

    09Scuderia Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2011
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    Max
    You absolutely can make money on new cars.

    Its about timing, not over building with too many options, no weird colors etc.

    Examples:
    - 812 comp? The coupes are + $4-500k. Apertas are double that. Friend bought a SF90 and that gave him the spot for the 812 Comp. The Comp is a major home run more than making up for the loss on the SF.
    - Our Pista was $424 in 2019, and sold in 2020 for $550k. Aperta Pistas are $600-900k.
    - Look at 458 Speciale Apertas...$600k. These cars are all around 50% more than MSRP.
    - F12 TDF anyone, that will be around 2x what MSRP was. (and oh my are f12 TDFs gorgeous)
    - Porsche GT products are usually smart buys. We have made money on every GT3 we have owned. The last one we sold for +$50k. Friend sold his NEW (yes he flipped it) 992 GT3 RS (white/ green) for +$200k.

    Bottom line, its normal for the non-speciale, special cars to lose value. If that loss positions you for a special car that history has shown are winners, take the loss and enjoy the winner. The key is walking away from the table when you have the winning hand. Assuming we secure a 296 Aperta VS that will be the last new Ferrari we buy. (probably :)

    P.S. Porsche 718 Spyder RS is going to be a big winner. That car has all of the hallmarks of a home run car. So does the 991.2 GT3 Speedster.
     
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  2. mkraft3003

    mkraft3003 Formula 3
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    Not disagreeing but all your examples are older cars and not newer ones. (I know it’s splitting hairs as the 812 would have been somewhat recent). I think the days of that happening are getting slimmer and slimmer.

    There was actually a good YouTube video on your topic. (One of them was for the GT3). How many normal cars and losses does it take to be eligible to buy a VS and make money? If you have to buy 5 normal cars and lose 50k on each to get a VS and make a 200k profit, is that worth it? In order for some people to be eligible for a Pista they had to buy a lusso. It was a wash at the end of the day. You can’t just walk into Ferrari and buy a TDF. You had to have an extensive buying history and those cars lost money.

    There are absolutely some exceptions and some people have made huge profits but when you offset all the cars they’ve lost on it is not as glamorous as it seems.

    Again, not disagreeing with anything you said.
     
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  3. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Veteran
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    He has a 765.....
     
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  4. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 24, 2011
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    812C is still being made, it is a new model as is the XX but these are the exception to the rule.

    Porsche SRS I believe will command a premium for a long time as that model is now going electric. Again, exceptions but on average you are correct.
     
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  5. NGooding

    NGooding Formula Junior
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    The secondary market seems to be normalizing post-Covid (at least part way). At the same time, new car stickers are rising. Those are both moving in the wrong direction for would-be speculators.

    This isn't to say that it can't be done. But there will be more headwinds than we've seen in the last five or so years.
     
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  6. 09Scuderia

    09Scuderia Formula 3

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    thats an excellent point. Inflation is real. IIRC the price increase on the 296 GTB from launch to now is around $50k. I bet the price of the 296 VS starts with a $5.
     
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  7. mkraft3003

    mkraft3003 Formula 3
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    Would be nice if they threw in a few options with the increased price!! At least make you feel like you are getting something in return.
     
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  8. ForeverNA

    ForeverNA Formula 3
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    Dec 14, 2014
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    Agree overall, but when I have to spend 5 minutes to top up, a lot of fun disappear quick.
     
  9. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
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    I've gotten mixed reviews on this. Mine will be here in 2 months so I'll report back.
     
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  10. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 6, 2003
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    Oh I was confused, I thought, "how big is the gas tank on this thing!?" Duh. Yes it's those little things that might make you not take the car out because of the hassle... and the next thing you know you haven't driven it in three months.
     
  11. ForeverNA

    ForeverNA Formula 3
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    Yes, then you factor in the wife keep going at it when she is needed to get out of the car and hold something for you under the rain, so the whole process become 2 minutes instead of 5. Hahhaha. That is the reason we passed the 718 SRS.
     
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  12. ForeverNA

    ForeverNA Formula 3
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    Oh my bad, I meant the manual top.. I have manual top in Alfa 4c spider.
     
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  13. ForeverNA

    ForeverNA Formula 3
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    They did. The apple carplay is free now! Lol
     
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  14. mkraft3003

    mkraft3003 Formula 3
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    Well that is 100% worth the price increase. Almost as beneficial as them throwing in nitrogen filled tires. :cool:
     
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  15. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I had a Mazda dealer try and markup for $400 for nitrogen as a below the line option and I laughed told them 'there is absolutely zero chance I pay for that, nitrogen is FREE at Costco!'
     
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  16. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
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    Owned a 720 for 3 years. Currently own a 765 spider and 675 lt
     
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  17. cmargosi

    cmargosi Formula Junior
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    OK then. Nevermind LOL....get the Maserati, but it won't be nearly as fun as the 765....
     
  18. SoCal to az

    SoCal to az F1 World Champ
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    Totally get it. Just trying to get the most bang for buck on a car I can thrash daily.
     
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  19. cmargosi

    cmargosi Formula Junior
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    So, here's a new take on what I think might be happening on Ferrari. I'm putting it into terms of my business, Real Estate (Commercial).

    Let's say I lease space to a Tenant A for $20 PSF. The market goes up and Tenant A then subleases to Tenant B for $30 PSF.

    When Tenant C comes along, I am no longer asking $20 PSF, I'm gonna ask $30 PSF, I want the profit on the next one.

    So, Ferrari says, these crazy Americans on the forum like Buyer B are willing to pay $450k for a car that we just sold to Buyer A for $390.....

    "Let's raise our prices so we get the extra $60k for ourselves". And along comes Cmargosi and he's thrilled to get his allocation at MSRP / spec...

    It's pretty simple. The market price for these cars has adjusted because Ferrari hiked the MSRP to get the profit themselves vs. leaving it for the 1st buyer, even in times of high demand. There's been a fundamental shift in their pricing strategy, which was driven by the market and also probably by being a public company.

    Eventually, it will impact resale and probably demand, but neither of those are a problem today. There's more than enough of us lined up to pay MSRP for the moment. And those that were hoping to pay MSRP, drive around a Ferrari to show their friends for 12 months and get out at what they paid or a little more, will find that market isn't there anymore.
     
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  20. cmargosi

    cmargosi Formula Junior
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    That being said, I've had my 720 for 3 years and I would daily drive the car if work and climate allowed for it....I think it's a very comfortable car.
     
  21. mkraft3003

    mkraft3003 Formula 3
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    Reminds me of the watch market years ago (long before Covid). A lot of brands kept on hiking up their pricing year after year. It got to the point where they priced themselves out of a lot of buyers and had to cut prices. (Don’t see Ferrari ever doing that but nice to hold out hope).

    Btw, I’m still very bitter about that. In 2012 I bought an AP perpetual from my dealer. It was an difficult watch to get and since I had a nice AP collection I was able to get one. Paid 78k for it and was happy as a clam. 2 months go by and AP had a price decrease across the entire brand. My watch was now priced at 62k. I ended up selling it years later for about 45k. :mad::mad:
     
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  22. 09Scuderia

    09Scuderia Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2011
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    Makes sense. Again factor in inflation. What doesn't cost more now vs pre-Covid? HOMES inflated by 50% in most markets over the last 3 years. Inflation is the variable that is hard to factor into thinking. Not since the late 70s/ early 80s have we had inflation that reset prices at this level. Prices won't fall, this is the new reality. I would venture a guess that Ferrari is pricing based on cost plus their expected margins. And the increase in overall pricing is largely due to their costs increasing...inflation. BTW, labor inflation hasn't really taken hold..yet.

     
  23. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
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    100% this is happening with all of these guys. Especially Ferrari and Porsche from what Ive seen.
     
  24. cmargosi

    cmargosi Formula Junior
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    +1 on Porsche. The price of a 911 keeps going up and up...
    I don't think it's all inflation, it's them capturing the market increases. I drove a Cayenne S. vs My BMW X5M60....BMW is 20% more car for 20% less price. Some of that may be that the X5 is built in US, but it's true when comparing most of the product lines (the 911 being the exception as I'm not sure it has an analogue in MB or BMW lineup). You get more options and standard features on BMW or Benz that costs thousands less than Panameras....

    Just like the Ferrari, you pay for the pony in the logo....
     
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  25. NGooding

    NGooding Formula Junior
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    I would bet that their pricing is a reflection of what they think the market will bear over the medium term, taking into account planned production numbers and presumably a desire to avoid price cuts in the future. Margins (high margins) fall out.
     
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