296 VS | Page 19 | FerrariChat

296 VS

Discussion in '296' started by ajr550, Jun 5, 2022.

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  1. 488gtbmasergt

    488gtbmasergt Karting

    Oct 18, 2016
    147
    And for eye candy here were some of my competition that day...
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  2. KL runner

    KL runner Karting

    Jul 25, 2023
    204
    Not in US
    Exactly, this is why after true factory testing when they knew the that the challenge could pull a genuine 340 they dialled it back .

    I always look at the GPS , the ‘dreamometer’ on Porsche, AMG , Ferrari or any car is never as accurate even at low speeds
     
  3. jo_ker

    jo_ker Karting

    Mar 29, 2014
    186
    Germany/Austria
    i couldn´t care less if a 296 VS will run 350kph on the speedo as some Pistas do (here a pic of mine with 336kph - and this was by far not the end...)


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    ...


    If the 296VS would get rid of the Hybrid stuff it would be highly praised by the press and car guys. And so also in the buyers spheres. Those guys who brag with hp numbers also brag with "drivers cars" and "emotion while driving" (when going each year 100miles in total buying ice cream to get seen...)
    anyhow. to each his own. thats fine.

    But i hope Ferrari get closer to the Porsche GT and RS factor - and bring a VS model which will polarize with it looks and hopefully will polarize with less hp (and so. also less weight). ;)

    If i have to bet 10k on Hybrid 296 VS yes or no. I would bet yes on Hybrid.
    But i personally would prefer to pay 50%-CO2 tax on the list price as soon it would not have hybrid - instead of paying 8% CO2-tax as on my 296 GTS thx to Hybrid and its low WLTP test cycle emissions.
     
  4. KL runner

    KL runner Karting

    Jul 25, 2023
    204
    Not in US
    The future is in Hybrid, like it or not . F1 in 2026 will probably be 50/50 power delivery and use a bio fuel. That is the way it is heading
     
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  5. jo_ker

    jo_ker Karting

    Mar 29, 2014
    186
    Germany/Austria
    pls tell me more about Electric and Racing after reading this: https://www.thedrive.com/accelerator/37321/heres-why-formula-1-cant-go-electric-yet-explained-with-simple-science
    "brings a full tank's potential energy to a hair over 1,400 kilowatt-hours (kWh)."
    ...
    "That's scarcely a 48th the density of gasoline, and would require a lithium-ion battery weighing 5,200 pounds."

    Bio and/or syntethic fuel is ok and something else. We speak about Hybrid and so we speak about weight. Please compare for example 90kg weight-difference based on a full tank and low tank F1 car in laptimes.

    I say: One hot lap on a GP track maybe the Hybrid 296 would be same quick as a 296 VS 690hp non hybrid.
    But one NOS lap or 5 GP laps or even a 30min stint. a non Hybrid 296 would be faster and cheaper (brakes/tires based on weight).
    A VS should be for track days and maybe a bit for canyon/mountain driving.
    There is a reason why a 296 Challenge is non-Hybrid. A 296 Challenge which don´t have to fit in any regulations... (different needs as a 296 GT3)
     
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  6. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,826
    Bournemouth, UK
    Since the 458 (so for 15 years now), most new Ferraris have a published top speed of 325 kph, or more. So how is what I said not true?


    I am thinking there was something wrong with your speedo, or the GPS. At those speeds, the difference shouldn't be greater than 10 kph; verified with various different models.
     
  7. KL runner

    KL runner Karting

    Jul 25, 2023
    204
    Not in US
     
  8. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 13, 2015
    5,068
    Scottsdale/Pittsburgh
    Full Name:
    Jon
    The % delta is about 3-5% and grows as the speedo grows. At 100 kph indicated, actual will be 97 kph. At 330 kph it will be close to 310 kph actual. This implies 350 indicates for ~330 actual. Simply a fact.
     
  9. TAM340R

    TAM340R Karting

    Jul 26, 2015
    240
    And you made some fantastic laps, chronos, congratulations !!
    I participated with a Pista…
    Have a nice day
    Tamas
     

    Attached Files:

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  10. 488gtbmasergt

    488gtbmasergt Karting

    Oct 18, 2016
    147
    I agree with you.
    A while ago, I did put my 488 on an official bench from TCS to measure actual speed vs. speedo and the delta increased quite a bit as the pace picked up...
    Roughly, 300 - 5% is 285. This is what I got from using Garmin GPS. Not saying it is accurate but it is consistent laps after laps.
     
  11. 488gtbmasergt

    488gtbmasergt Karting

    Oct 18, 2016
    147
    I took many pictures of your car. Loved it. My kids at home too...
    Sorry, we were many at this event and I am not sure if we actually met? Or were you the man who asked me to take a picture in front of the car in between the flags at the Hospitalet?
     
  12. TAM340R

    TAM340R Karting

    Jul 26, 2015
    240
    yess ;))
    Tamas

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  13. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,826
    Bournemouth, UK
    @KL runner: Speed on the straights also contributes to lap times. There are some pretty fast tracks out there.


    It doesn't work like this anymore. In the old days the delta was a fixed percentage, which meant that the indicated speed would have a greater deviation in units of speed (kph, mph), as the speed grew, exactly as you said. Since the advent of the electronic speedometers (I don't mean the gauges themselves, but the inner mechanism), manufacturers can vary the actual indicated speed in a non-linear manner. The amount of variation is up to them. I distinctly remember a test where the 458 had a GPS-speedo delta of 10 km/h at its top speed, measured with a professional V-Box.
     
  14. KL runner

    KL runner Karting

    Jul 25, 2023
    204
    Not in US
     
  15. Jo Sta7

    Jo Sta7 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 13, 2015
    5,068
    Scottsdale/Pittsburgh
    Full Name:
    Jon
    You just are not correct.
     
  16. Maximus1973

    Maximus1973 Formula 3

    Oct 29, 2016
    1,447
    without derailing this discussion further from the upcomming 296VS, here are some real life findings.
    1. I have been driving in the Challenge series for over 5 years. The top speed of the 488 Challenge EVO is 301km o the speedometer.
    This top speed was aquired on a controlled closed highway and I maintained that speed for over 20 miles trying to go faster. There was no suden drop of power or some kind of cut off. The decrease in speed was 100% due to the aero of the car. A fact that is well know with all Challenge driver and factory drivers

    2. I have the luxury of doing top speed runs on the German Autobahn with all my cars. I can assure you every 'modern Ferrari' does at least 330km on the speedometer.

    3. My Pista Piloti has a top speed of 345km. It was reached on the same stretch of empty road as the Challenge. Perhaps with different wind/outside temp that can be stretched with 1-2km but not more.

    4. The 296 Challenge does noty have a hybrid system due to FIA rules and the safetey issues a battery pack has on track cars.

    Back to the 296VS discussion. Perhaps I'll learn a bit from factory drivers in the following months.
     
  17. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
    4,107
    The 296 is beautiful. I love that is smaller than the F8. I just don't like the exhaust. Exhaust pipes are such a important aesthetic of a sportscar, and especailly for Ferrari. I think back to the classic monza style exhaust on the classics. The dual exhaust tips on the 355/360 was nice, all the current v12 models carry this tradition. I don't know why they went with this soft exhaust design for the 296. When I see a Ferrari I want to see pipes lol
     
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  18. jo_ker

    jo_ker Karting

    Mar 29, 2014
    186
    Germany/Austria
    thx for those words.

    Do you drive / or have driven already a 296 GTB/S? What are your words about it if you compare it with your Pista?
    Where you already able to compare a 296 Challenge against your well known 488 Challenge Evo?
    What do you guess will happen with the 296VS? Where will it sit between 296 GTB/S and 296 Challenge?
     
  19. ntatfas

    ntatfas Karting

    Apr 27, 2011
    226
    UK
    Novitec offer a solution amongst much more


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  20. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
    4,107
    Looks better than stock.
     
  21. Clod488

    Clod488 Karting

    Jan 4, 2021
    65
    Miami Beach
    yes , only issue , you have to remove bumper fo the installation .........nothing that can be done by yourself ( in my case at least )
     
  22. Maximus1973

    Maximus1973 Formula 3

    Oct 29, 2016
    1,447
    Comparing a 296 against a pista is not the most logical comparisson.
    The Pista is a limited car that was (according to the legends) launched to be the answer to McLaren's sudden leap with the 675LT/720S in performance.
    The 296 is an amazing everyday car. True to what Ferrari is trying to achieve with non limited's. Daily easy performance.
    The Pista is very, very visceral. Even when compared to the 812comp. The comp feels docile compared to a Pista, both when driven at speed.

    I have not driven the 296 Challenge yet. I have it on order, so can't compare at this time. However based on the numbers and leap from 488Challenge it has to be a much better car overall; despite not loosing a considerable amount of stock weight.....

    Another even bigger guess is the 296 VS. The pista was developed based on the learnings from the 488Challenge. The Pista basically has the Challenge engine with a bit more boost. That would make sense for the 296VS as well. However we do have to content with the batery pack in the regular 296.
    I would love for ferrari to ditch the battery pack, that would be an insane move for them as it would signal they have stopped the HP wars and focus more on the driving experience.
    However when you look at the majority clientel, HP numbers still do matter. The amount of road Ferrari's that actually are driven at speed on a track is very, very, very low. So my initial thought would be that the VS would be a 296 with more boost and some additional aero based of the Challenge version. It would be very, very weird to have a limited model have less HP then the regular version. That wouldsit very weirdly in Ferrari's picking order..... But I would gladly want to be surprised by deleting the battery pack....

    OR, Ferrari would repeat the same play as with the SF90XX version. A car that was initially designed to be a track only XX version. They could do the same with the 296VS/XX version. Release a road legal version of a race car. Only problem would be, is that the 296Challenge is faster on track then a SF90XX! The impact of the SF90XX is also way, way less then any other limited in the brand's history (says perhaps omething about the SF90's appeal)

    Hopefully I have more info from test drivers soon.....
     
  23. ntatfas

    ntatfas Karting

    Apr 27, 2011
    226
    UK
    I wonder if the 296 battery technology is "old" enough that a denser and lighter battery variant is now available, even at a premium, to help with weight reduction.
     
  24. Maximus1973

    Maximus1973 Formula 3

    Oct 29, 2016
    1,447
    It's of course already available.
    Howeevr there is that small thing as 'cost'. Ferrari wants to maximize profits so they will not use the cutting edge of battery tech.
    Just look at what Koeningsegggg/Rimac achieve with their battery tech
     
  25. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,826
    Bournemouth, UK
    Don't take my word for it. Please conduct an experiment though. Take out 2-3 (to eliminate bias) of your cars to the highway and try different indicated speeds and correlate those to the corresponding GPS speed. Does the speed difference between the speedometer and the GPS change proportionately? Try 50 mph on the speedo (you have to be travelling at that speed for a few seconds for the GPS to catch up) and then compare it to the GPS. Then try 80 mph on the speedo. Is the speed difference proportionate, or does it remain broadly the same (i.e. 3-4 mph throughout)?
     

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