No.I would like the car to be lighter and even better to drive. Depreciation is not the point but I mentioned it because it is a factor. The one criticism of the 296 is behaviour under braking caused (I assume) by the fact it is a heavy car due to the batteries.
My counter though is that car already exists in the 488 Pista, so why not just buy that? And I have a fair amount of Pista seat time and the 296 is better to drive in every way and much quicker. So, just making it lighter and losing the benefits of hybrid is going to magically make it better since its predecessor with a more powerful engine and 300 less pounds isn’t as good. and the Pista won’t depreciate. And it’s better looking. Seems like that’s the move if no hybrid is the desire. I think the 296 platform has really moved things onward in a positive way.
Anyone on track wants a safer lighter car - look at history the lightweights always retain the highest value. IMO it's like running around a corner wearing a back pack full of rocks. XX with a wing makes sense - be interesting to see downforce numbers without a wing. 296 is a very fast set up with a nice design. We will know soon
And are we collectively convincing ourselves Ferrari has made “light” cars in recent memory? I weighed my 765 with a full tank of fuel at my local track at 3064 pounds. That’s 250+ pounds lighter than a Pista. Is 3300 pounds (Pista) or 3600 pounds (296) really going to make a difference? It’s not like we’re talking 3600 or sub 3000 pounds. Do I wish Ferrari would use a carbon tub and prioritize lightness, of course! But they don’t, and losing the hybrid isn’t going to magically fix that. The 296 challenge only loses 300 pounds.
Keep the hybrid, give me more power, more aero, more cooling vents and most importantly... make it look HOT HOT HOT!
Owned Senna 7655LT Spider - weight matters. The tub however sucked for me, too hard to get in.n out of a Spider Mac loved Senna design performance. The carbon Mac tub shortens the door opening and painful to enter exit, also not convinced tub saves weigh / safer - it's stronger but it does not flex vs the alloy frame absorbs impact. Go back to Speciale - 3000 pounds and the 296VS could get very close Anyway you cut it - every factory has their own direction - customers choose what's best and overall for them - hybrid which I love, struggles for others - mostly those who have not experienced it. Personally think the best drivers cars have already been built.
Have you weighed your speciale? I weighed mine at a little over 3300 pounds with a full tank When I had it.
I think the VS without the hybrid would have a really special appeal, bringing it closer to the 296 Challenge, like a "296 Challenge Stradale". Less weight, better drive, more naturalness. In addition, it would make the VS a really different car from its base version. Look at Porsche, they have the very fast 992 GTS "t-hybrid", and also the 992 GT3 RS, without hybridization and impeccable on the track, with a beautiful naturally aspirated engine, and naturalness to drive. “I would definitely get rid of the hybrid. I think all the time, when I jump back in a V8 [car], I’m always so surprised how smooth the engine is. “The top speed is slow compared to what we have now, but it’s just the pickup of the engine, the torque – it’s so smooth, the whole delivery process, the downshifts, the upshifts. So much more natural to what we have now." The above words are from the current F1 champion, Max Verstappen, in an interview to Planet F1. I respect the opposing opinions, I’m not totally against the hybrid, but I think it should only be used with N/A.
I have not but would not disagree - my 16M weighed just over 3000 few gallons in tank. 458S - wheels seats glass mirrors lots of weight to remove
Were notoriously - the XX produces more hp than stated. Let's go forward vs years back. The SF90 is faster than the new Lambo - things have changed. Whatever the VS is - let's see who can compete - doubtful anyone can, Reason - SF90 was almost a decade ahead of the competition.
Had to stop by the dealer today, salesman was uncertain on the hybrid, SA was convinced it won’t be a hybrid. Salesman did say coupe, spyder, and Piloti, maybe the Piloti won’t be hybrid but the others will? He said the regional NA guy did hint that the highest version always follows the challenge car. Maybe that explains why we’ve seen prototypes with and without stickers? They could also be testing a model that would sit below the 296 successor and not be a hybrid.
In the case of the Pista, the Piloti was technically unchanged, just giving a specific livery, higher exclusivity and increased price. So if the 296 VS follows the same pattern, there should not be a "standard" hybrid VS and a Piloti non hybrid.
Is it that difficult to make a 296 Challenge road legal ? They could call it a Challenge Stradale. I'm sure you are right but it is nice to daydream whilst we await the release !!
We can put this discussion to rest, I just asked my dealer ( who has already seen the production car at the factory ) and he assured me the car will be hybrid, without wanting to give details , he did say that the drivetrain of the VS is “not materially different”. The dealer told me that Ferrari had, at some point. played with the idea to drop the hybrid system , there seems to even be a prototype driving around with that setup . However , Ferrari abandoned the idea pretty early on because this would mean they would have to limit the V12 production due to European CO2 fleet emission regulations. Basically Ferrari can keep the V12 alive only because the 296 is a hybrid ( Ferrari doesn’t have an EV yet ) and brings down the total CO2. So a non hybrid 296 was never a real option. Also it seems that the 296 without hybrid is not so fun to drive daily , it lacks torque at low rpm and it would mean only 700hp which made it slower than the regular 296 despite less weight. Sure they could increase the power of the V6 beyond 700hp but that would come at the expense of low rpm torque, so only making it worse for daily road driving. Now I don’t know what the drivetrain will be , but from the “not materially different” comment, I think they might have given the V6 a few more horses and perhaps the VS has a lighter or more energy dense battery pack for more and or longer electric power. conclusion, don’t expect anything to crazy, it would already be nice if they squeezed out 70hp more ( 40hp from the V6 and 30hp electric) to reach +- 900hp to bring it into Temerario territory……
@EuropeFerrari thank you for talking sense. 70 hp up and 70 kg down would be an amazing car. What the 296 needs is more intensity inside. For example, the “whack” and “thwack” of the 765 exhaust back fire is organic and spine tingling. The 296 sounds muffled and muted by contrast. It feels restrained and the VS just needs to take the platform and let the beast out of its cage. That’s what I’m really hoping for. The ultimate iteration of what’s possible in the platform with no compromise to performance.
I’m pretty sure the VS will have a different exhaust ( less weight, maybe more power, hopefully better sound ) , we’ll know exactly in just a few weeks, very excited
I have heard the same from my dealer who has seen the car. As I have consistently said (I did start this thread !) I am sure the VS will be hybrid but we can all dream (and tell Maranello what we would like via Ferrarichat)
We all knew it would be hybrid. Fun to think outside the box though. Hopefully more sound, but not sure what they can do. Oh, I know, offer an exhaust for $30k that keeps warranty!
On track 300lbs is a huge difference. Even passenger that weighs 140lbs makes a big difference. For street driving it doesn't matter and I always suggest getting a track car vs putting your street cars on the track. Also consider many tracks won't let hybrids run as they may not be equipped for battery fires.
