You 100% nailed it on the Pista and this holds true for all Ferrari's they been releasing for sale for a long time. I've had a good many Porsche's up till 2019 and even the regular Carrera S and GTS and Cayman's hold up and work wonderfully at the track and will out run cars with way more power...but yes like you mentioned the GT2-3 cars are really a street car that can take the track over and over and really can endure being run WOT. I just do not like how Porsche sells new cars. As one who's bought 11 new Porsche's in 20 years most all from the same dealer they do not care....unless you want to pay $100k over sticker for a GT3, GT3RS or GT4 or GT4RS and some Turbo's even they want to sell to the highest bidder at $20K over. F'em! Porsche lost my business and I bought 2 Ferrari's since 2019 and an Aston.
Well I’ve never bothered to be verified. Have owned several, currently four in the stable. Pretty easy to tell who has and who has not. a sad statement that you are just here to laugh if the VS is hybrid when we all know it will be. otherwise this is a fun thread!
And yet, few found their way into street cars until recently. Turbos have been an easy way to add power for 50 years. But, with the odd exception (F40, 911 Turbo, etc.), few manufacturers put them in their road cars, deliberately opting for less efficient NA configuration because of its other virtues (linearity, sound, reliability, maybe others). It was only when regulations started to impose efficiency as a first class goal that we saw this half-century old technology gain mainstream adoption, alongside shiny new tech like hybrids. If there is a lesson here, it's that it's difficult to attribute the reasons that manufacturers are choosing today's powertrains. What's not debatable is that regulations are a major factor.
Recently is a way to see it - turbos have made their way to mainstream cars about 10 years ago, without being anymore advertised as such (so that many mainstream cars have had turbocharged engines without people even knowing it). For instance, Peugeot introduced the 3-cylinder turbocharged Puretech engine (now ominously famous for its issues on the wet timing belt) in 2014.
Ten years is roughly what I had in mind when I said recent. I would attribute the timing of this shift mainly to an increased social and regulatory emphasis on efficiency. Note that 2014 is the year F1 switched to hybrid turbo V6s, which, of course, was set in motion several years earlier. Those regs were designed with reduced fuel consumption and carbon emissions as a primary goal. It was very much top of mind by 2012, at least for Jean Todt in his role as FIA President. Incidentally, I think the lack of marketing fanfare may emphasize the point that they didn't see turbos as progress so much as something to quietly slip into the engine bay to meet efficiency requirements without the need to print lower horsepower numbers in their brochures. That said, I was thinking more of 911s and Ferraris and Astons than Peugeots and the like.
Or going back to the 90s with 300zx, RX7, 3000Gt/Stealth, Supra, GTR, then the Rally cars from Subaru, Mitsubishi, Peugeot. Heck the Toyota pickups and 4Runners were turbos in the 80s. Like the Saabs, Lotus, and Audis. Turbos have been mainstream for decades.
I'm sure I can think of a few more examples too (EB110, 959, etc.). But for the first four decades or so of their existence, I'd say that turbos were the exception, not the rule. Today, turbos are nearly ubiquitous. I'd attribute that shift mainly to regulatory pressures. Turbos also got better, but I don't think there's a chicken and egg question in this case. Would you disagree? If efficiency wasn't a factor for these manufacturers, do you think turbos would be meaningfully more common today than they were twenty years ago?
Nothing is 100% until it is released. BTW many members float around and talk like they have skin and in actual fact dont. Its a simple process verify and thats it.
It’s a good question. I think it’s also a packaging and marketing niche solution as well. It seemed turbos (and to a lesser extent superchargers) were first popularized by performance cars that were looking to prove that there is in fact a replacement for displacement but then shifted to economy when the technology was more accessible and affordable. Would they have become popular in economy cars had the technology not been pushed by the likes of Porsche first? Would they even be that much more efficient if performance and even Motorsport not advanced the technology? Where would the NA V8 be today if Ferrari kept evolving it? Without a doubt draconian regulations have killed some incredible cars and technology while artificially supporting others. It’s a shame but we’re stuck with where we are, hopefully the future is a world with a wide range of options for enthusiasts. one thing I know, I was ardently against hybrids but absolutely love my 296. And I’ll probably only want the VS if it’s not a hybrid!
I was also ardently against the idea of a V6 until I heard it! They did a great job with that engine.
Came from multiply Porsche GT3’s. Couldn’t agree more. The car felt very slow after a while as well, the ride quality was really not that great, the wings were getting immature as well. Great car, but not for me. Love love my pista, so much theatre and fun to drive. These days don’t really care on which car is faster around a track, I want some drama in a car. All this being said, a 296 is a wonderful car for the $(even new). Turbo s on steroids.
My dealer which is Porsche / Ferrari dealership. GT3RS Manthey incoming and have tons of friends that drive both and believe it or not on track. Ferrari sold out for the next two years, one can't get a new F car for 3 years yet it's a consumable - easily replaced. Complete VS!
To be fair on turbos, the technology kept improving so a turbo from today is not the same as youd find in a car from the 1980s. I think it was somewhat endearing in cars like the F40 because it was used to make that car wild and crazy. So I think a lot of this is whats the technology being used to achieve. And I think thats where some of the issue with the hybrids comes. I think the messaging should be that they are using a new technology for the purpose of added power, that it is a “go-faster” technology. I think to that end, the e manettino should have not been utilized and just left the different e mode programs incorporated to the regular manettino choices, with the exception of allowing for some e only driving when you want it. But thats history now, I just fire up the car and go.
F40 CarreraGT FordGT 930 turbo lack aids making them dangerous. It's not if these cars will be in an accident it's when. Ferrari special sauce - offers a playful car while maintaining a level of safety to building confidence. 296 owners - very few can handle and Ferrari has to keep that in mind, adding a dialed up track version is something they have to build for all customers. We all know the current 296. SF90 are dialed way back, few mods and it's a completely different car to suit the. owners needs. Porsche / Matheny extremely smart - my GT3RS Manthey will have no rear view or mirror - allows Porsche to do wild things and remain under Porsche brand and warranty Would love to see Ferrari find a partner like Porsche Manthey etc for dealers to install aero if nothing else to personalize the use even further and eliminate all the Gov't rules.
I believe it's significantly more, and only for extension of bumper-bumper factory warranty so Power15 isn't priced/available yet.
To be fair about it, the F40 and 930 turbo were designed before almost all the aids were available for consumer application. It's a fair criticism of the CGT and FGT, that they are lacking. I agree with you that Ferrari has mastered making these high power cars approachable for people of average skill, yet, they also make them fun for those of us with a bit more skill and experience. I think the AF is kind of their track kit.
Mid 1980's the 959 was much easier to drive than F40 that tech was not on 930 Ferrari engineers of the F40 / Porsche 930 care, the scrapped then reborn Carrera GT "dangerous" ask me how I know. Porsche recently gave a FREE factory $150k and new tires to all owners. AF kit has been replaced by the non AF on XX by what Ferrari claims, just as good to incorporate the lifter. We will see how they offer it on VS - expect same. Agree my SF90 AF is very track ready.
I drove a friends brand new Carrera GT when it was new. I thought it was both the greatest performance vehicle I'd ever driven and also one of the most willing to kill. It's simply got a bit of a race car's lack of unforgivingness, which makes it super precise, but also you have to be super good. But that was then and they did update tires etc. They still offer the multimatic "AF" on the XX, but it lacks the lifter and they basically say they tightened up the older Magnaride suspension so that its about on the level of the AF on the standard car. I bet the multimatic on the XX is pretty darn extreme. I opted for the Magnaride as it offers the lifter and I deemed this better for me.
Owned Carrera GT and totaled it - cracked tub, walked away. Need to choose XX suspension - put guard plates on front lip SF90AF - no issues yet.
Glad you're OK. They recommend most everyone choose the "lifter" suspension, which is their way of saying the Magnaride suspension with bumpy road mode. They told me it's been recalibrated to feel like the production car Multimatic. I dont think it can be the exact same, since it's a different technology. But with that long and low front end, I'll take the lifter and the bumpy road mode doesn't hurt on my roads. I have a friend with an XX coupe and the Magnaride suspension and he says the car drives like a dream and even with the lifter he's had a few times where its just gently rubbed going into a steep driveway. They recommended the "non-lifter" suspension, which is their code for the MultiMatic, for those who will be mostly on glass smooth roads or race tracks.
CGT and 996 gt2 were nuts, I knew people seriously injured in very bad crashes and several people who were killed in their gt2 - all of them experienced drivers too.
