308 Timing Bearings, Spring and Assemblies

I noticed you said "assemblies" in reference to axial play and not the bearings. If I remember correctly, there would be some slop to them when off the engine, but once they are installed on the engine and tightened up there will be no play in them. The bolt with it's substantial head and the casting which it mates to are all very well machined and will make the belt run true. Granted, there could have been some sloppiness in the machining of the casting which could cause the bearing carrier to be cock-eyed a bit once installed, causing your belt to run off course a bit. If your brother has a fairly large surface plate in his shop, you can check to see how true the surfaces are with that casting. Maybe the bosses on the cylinder head (where the studs are to mount this the casting) are not dead-flat either. That'd be harder to check...

I think you partcipated in that thread here on the subject of tensioner springs around a year ago? In any case, these were the bearings I got from Dennis McCann about a year and half ago. They were considerably of a better quality than the ones I got from Superformance many years ago.
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Really? What was the condition of the boss/post that the bearing mounts too? Is it scratched/gouged up? I'm sure you have a dial caliper, measure the O.D. of the post/boss and the I.D. of the bearing...

 

SKF changed the design and construction of the bearing. Yours, if they arrived on the new logo packaging that is shown in the picture #1, are the "new" SKF design.

There is considerable uncertainty about whether this change from SKF was driven by engineering or driven by economics.

 

I got a better idea. I'll send you a set of Hill Engineering bearings at no charge. PM me your mailing address, and they'll go out tomorrow morning.

 

I thought I heard someone saying something about "no charge"






Ok, who's giving stuff away at no charge??

 

Daniel, ignore Rob's ramblings and just send him the bearings...

 

Daniel,

Due to observing and discovering some of this and a little of that, I started and have been doing a fair amount of research off and on for awhile, on SKF bearnings, as SKF is located in my old town (Schweinfurt, Germany). So far, the more I have learned, the more unanswered questions I have and consequently the less I know.

Lots seems to be going (has gone) on with those bearings ...... and the maze is difficult to navigate although I have an inside track (friend of a friend sort of thing) at the company. Plus all the outright phonies out there ain't helping.


Exactly which pic above do you refer to as "#1"?

 

The picture of a bearing on Ferrari yellow/black blister-pack packaging.


My friend, the more you dig the only worse it will become. Go check out some pictures from a thread I started in 348/355 about "When bad parts..."

 

Robert -

The lack of brand name on the bearing you photographed is indeed problematic. One has to wonder why the largest bearing manufacturer in the world would suddenly decide to forego to the industry approved labeling procedures -- that they themselves rigorously enforce in the industry.

"Know thy supply chain".

Take me up on the offer to give you some of the Hill bearings, then send the one you've got to SKF USA for verification. The mouse that roared.

To answer your direct question about the blue-boxed original SKF bearings... I have none. Mike and I threw our last 10-12 into the dumpster early in 2010 when we realized the extent of change between the old (original) SKF ones, and the new SKF design. Personally, I think the new SKF design is a step backwards --- but they didn't consult me, so it's kinda irrelevant. The bearing you have in these photos, I believe, is not even of SKF origin. This isn't the best looking website in the world, and it certainly has a political agenda, but check out: http://www.bearingcode.com/

Phone me at Ricambi, and we can have a more in depth discussion about how/why that bearing probably landed in your garage and looks the way it does.

 

Hello all,

there's a bulletin from SKF, about the design change of their VKM 22380. See below the attached pdf. I have another SKF bulletin about the reasons, WHY they changed the design. But the pdf is too big to post this file here.
Secondly; the current 'genuine' tensioner bearing from Ferrari is NOT SKF. There are rumours here in Germany about their actual origin. But comments about this on FChat are ' too hot ' for me.
Thirdly; I have those genuine bearings on my car since around 6 months and they collect a lot of dust and dirt on their surface where the belt runs. Reason. The surface is fairly rough compared to the former genuine Ferrari bearings.
Rob; mine have no play and slid onto the shaft without problems. I suspect, that the unknown bearing manufacturer doesn't care much about tolerances. Seen similar problems a thousand times on italian car parts during the last few years and currently ended with a catastrophic bearing failure ( propshaft ) on my Alfa Romeo.

Maybe some of you may have recognized, that the genuine Ferrari bearings have become siginifantly cheaper compared with their price around 10 years ago.

I myself will observe how things are proceeding on my car and if in doubt I will replace them with the Hill Engineering tensioners.

Best Regards from Germany

Martin
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Hi Rob,

what makes me concerned is the fact, that you need a puller to remove the inner ring from the shaft. Mine - ever did, OEM, SKF and all the others - slide on and off by hand.

Any chance to remove the outer ring from the housing to look whether there are any markings on the outer ring ?
With a help of a lathe, it's easy to turn off the flared edge which hold the outer ring.

Is the ball cage still made of plastics ?

Best Regards from Germany

Martin

 

Tanks for all the info/shots Rob.

As far as I know the original design of the SKF BA2B 633340B bearing have two inner races. And I think that must be the same by now. I've attached a cross section drawing from SKF showing that.

There are so many equivalent bearings on other brands like INA, Quinton Hazell, Febi Bilstein, Breda... I will try to post all the part numbers. So if someone can post his experiences with these brands it would be nice. Maybe their quality matches the SKF quality.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I think they have always been prone to seperate like that, during assembly???

 

not any more. See the SKF-bulletin I have attached in one of my previous postings.

Best Regards

Martin

P.S.: sometimes it's hard to repeat each and every thing.

 

Martin,

From my research, THAT is where things START getting sticky.

Bearings numbered SKF BA2B 633340B and VKM 22380 are NOT the same bearing. The first WAS MADE by SKF. The second MIGHT be made by SKF, or someone else. Sounds harmless ............ BUT .........

It gets worse (MUCH WORSE) from there.


It is a real mess and I admittly DO NOT have a handle on it.

SKF BA2B 633340B IS THE Holy Grail for us. VKM 22380 may or may not be (older is better). The selling arm of SKF and packaging and changing part numbers and changing parts adds to the confusion. A bearing with the first number stamped (lazer etched) but packaged with the second number makes it worse.

Here are other reasons to believe some bearings PICed on this page MAY NOT BE ORIGIONAL SKF MANUFACTURED quality.


I'll stop here. AS you said previously, "TOO HOT FOR ME ON F-CHAT."


Respectfully,

 

Hey Gang, can or do timing belt bearings make noise when they are about to fail? Mine have about 11,000 miles and 4 years.
Thanks
Charles

 

Sorry Mark, but to make the confusion less;
VKM 22380 IS a SKF part. There are clones from other companies ( INA, Breda Lorett, etc.,etc. ) and even OEM parts from Opel, Renault, etc.
But then they wear a different - cross reference - parts no.

VKM 22380 is the no. of the whole tensioner pulley assembly. The bearing itself is no. BA 28633340 B. I have two sets - old design, two inner races - here. An old one I installed 6 years ago and a pair of new ones. Same bearing no.

If some chinese companies make counterfeit pulleys with the same no. it's a different issue.

Best Regards

Martin

 

Yes they CAN. Sorry, but I think, this is not very helpful
But I wouldn't worry much with 11.000 mls.

Best Regards

Martin