2nd Gear TR | FerrariChat

2nd Gear TR

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by stuart, Oct 8, 2004.

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  1. stuart

    stuart Karting

    Aug 13, 2003
    101
    Hidden Hills.CA
    Full Name:
    Stuart Siegel
    Is there an issue with a weak 2nd gear in either the TR or 512TR gearbox? I have had both cars and I know in particular with the TR's it is tough getting into 2nd gear when cold but I was not aware of a trans problem. I am asking this question on behalf of a friend who is having a second gear problem and is being sold on the idea of having all the gears case hardened while the trans is out.
     
  2. bubba

    bubba Formula 3

    May 8, 2002
    1,025
    Hong Kong
    Full Name:
    PPPP
    I think it's a common issue with older Ferraris. I had an 86 Mondial, which also had a hard 2nd gear issue when the tranny is cold. I don't think it's really a problem.
     
  3. stuart

    stuart Karting

    Aug 13, 2003
    101
    Hidden Hills.CA
    Full Name:
    Stuart Siegel
    I think we know about the "hard" 2nd gear problem, my question is about a second gear failure problem that is common with the TR's.
     
  4. Smiles

    Smiles F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 20, 2003
    16,674
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Full Name:
    Matt F
    I'm a little skeptical, especially if the hardening treatment is being sold as "case hardening". Case hardening is for low carbon steels, and I would think that Ferrari transmission gears would not be made from low carbon steel. Regular hardening may be helpful, but would also make the gear teeth more brittle. Tempering after hardening always helps, but may simply return you to where you started.

    Unless you think that the people offering this service know more about metalurgy than the folks at Maranello, I'd leave the parts as they are.

    --Matt
     
  5. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Phil Hughes
    Firstly, a baulky 2nd gear is quite normal and actually a sign of good health and low mileage. They get a bit better with use, and are also sensitive to oil type, with a good synthetic being important. A TR with 20-30,000 miles is usually at it's best. And they'll stay good for ages. I've never seen one with a terminally worn synchro, but it is possible to bend selectors or strip dog teeth if clumsy.

    Secondly, Any treatment or even the condition of the gears will have absolutely no effect on selection feel. The selection is entirely dependant on the synchro rings, which are sintered bronze or brass depending on which gear.

    Superpolishing (as opposed to case hardening) the gears will give less noise and less friction and the box will run cooler, but it's only necessary on race cars looking for tiny improvements in fiercly competitive categories really.
     
  6. 512Professore

    512Professore Karting

    Feb 3, 2004
    145
    USA, GA.
    Full Name:
    Brian Strasburg
    Totally agree with ferrarifixer. The 911 Porsche with the G15 gearbox has a very similar design for the synchros, and for those that have owned one of these Porsches, you may have also wondered why shifting is rather bulky/stiff when cold. A very good synthetic gear lube helps tremendously. For me and my car, I use Royal Purple 75W90 in the gearbox/differential, and the result when cold shifting is almost like no effort at all. Amsoil also has a very good synthetic gear lube, and I tried this brand first with some improvement, but the Royal Purple seems to the best that I have used.
     
  7. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,105
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    TR gears like most Ferrari transaxles prior to 360 are made by ZF and the quality is quite good, no further hardening of them should be attempted. On rebuilds you can lap the syncro ring to the gear by hand and it will reduce the shift effort even when cold by a considerable amount. It is the only modification that should be considered.
     

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