OK experts, need some quick info. I am looking at an 86 Mondial 3.2 convertible (red/tan) later this week. Allegedly it is in showroom condition with well under 10K on the clock. It is still on its original tires and is in need of a major. The seller is tossing around the idea of parting with this car, but he has not committed yet--nor have I by any stretch of the imagination. I am primarily looking at this particular car because my friend who is very knowledgeable is telling me this is a great car. I am very concerned that at that mileage point, everything, and I mean everything made out of rubber is going to need to be replaced and anything that pumps anything may also need replacing as well. I am also concerned that any garage queen mondial is probably 40K miles from being sorted out. However, right now the mondial is the only car my family and I have looked at so far that everyone agrees on (4 seats, italian and convertible). I am trying to anticipate a realistic offer for the guy. However, I was looking for a driver that was well sorted. What do you think I should offer? I figure it probably needs 10G-12G in deferred maintenance. Furthermore, if I got the car I would want to put 5K mileage on her a year. I have no intention of buying something and not enjoying it. Putting aside that this car is not a really good fit for me, what is a good price range FOR ME, to offer for this car? BTW, no I have not ruled out the Maserati-but it would have to be a coupe
10K-12K sounds about right for a garage queen with deferred maintenance. It cost me about $12K to put a garage queen 328 (same drivetrain as a mondial 3.2) that had not been driven in 10 years back on the road. My 328 had only had 1,358 miles and the camshaft seals, shift shaft seals and various hoses needed to be replaced. The fact that the car has under 10K for mileage does not necessarily mean all the rubber parts have dried out, if it was run at least reasonably often. Best thing to do if you are truly interested in the car is have a PPI done to see what the car needs. No offense to the Maser crowd, but I think the Mondial is better looking, and from a few people I've talked to the yearly upkeep would probably be less on the Mondial 3.2 (once its sorted out) than the Maser. But if the car is not a good fit for you, why consider it in the 1st place? Best regards, Dino
This all started simple enough. I finally got a nice financial bump and the wife supported me getting my Ferrari. I jumped right to the Mondial, because I had always thought it was the perfect compromise of Ferrari/family, and it fit nicely in my price range. At the time, I didn't know anyone who owned a Ferrari and my experience in Italian cars was limited to Alfas and Lancias. I went to a dealer to look at a really nice Mondial and one of the technicians told me to stay as far away from a mondial as I could and if I wanted a Ferrari, get a 308/328 or TR (as if I could afford that!). I put down the Mondial idea completely. I then went to the 308/328 and almost pulled the trigger on a couple of nice cars only to lose them at the very last second. In the months that have followed, I have waffled from the sensible (Porsche) to the absurd (lotus elise) and everything in between. In the meantime, further things have happened at work (offered a car allowance) which now makes this whole thing even more of a toy. On top of that, I feel guilty because the economy is in the tank and I am out Ferrari shopping. So why, you ask, am I looking at the Mondial, because it is the best fit, its practical for an exotic, its the car my whole family loves, and the car I would have bought almost a year ago if that damned tech didn't scare the crap out of me. However, if you ask me tomorrow...I may say I want a Cadillac Eldorado...so work with me Whew, that was cathartic.
Joe, I recently bought a 328 and felt a little guilty too - the economy, fuel prices, the environmental snub of my F's crappy gas mileage, but that all vanished as quickly as I could accelerate from 0-60 Hell I can only drive mine 6mos of the year and I don't even have an SUV 1st which makes more sense than a through and through toy. Really, don't worry about that those things. If you're able to have something like this there's no reason you shouldn't enjoy it, and guiltlessly. My wife was a little uncomfortable w.an F since she felt it was a little pretentious and putting on aires (however that kind of 'aire' is spelled) but she's cool with it now! As to the Mondial, I like them for the same reasons you do and they're still a Ferrari, i.e. everything that makes a Ferrari a Ferrari. Whether you get this one or another one I would encourage you to go w.the Mondial vs anything else on your radar, least of all a Caddy, which is nice, but in a few word is: not a Ferrari
That mechanic was either an idiot or had an ax to grind!! First off, a Mondial is a daily driver with pizzaz. Someone looking at such a car wants to be able to drive it with his family fairly often, around town or on long trips. It has "cheap" maintenance as Ferraris go. A 308 is personal sports car that is for a driver, not a family. Same ballpark maintenance but it's probably not going to see the use a Mondial would for a guy LOOKING for a Mondial. It's for a guy who likes to drive. Now, how ANYONE could recommend a TR to someone looking for a Mondial is insane. This car not only costs more to buy, its going to cost much more to keep running, and is a beast. A 308 guy might consider it, but someone looking for a Mondial? That's like telling someone looking for an Accord to consider a Viper. Let me guess: the dealer had a 308 and TR on the floor? Ken
At the time, I was so naive, I just ate the whole thing hook line and sinker. The problem with Ferraris is, everyone has an opinion, and few people actually own them! If not for this board, I would never have gone back. But after so much time lurking and reading posts of all kinds, I am getting more comfortable with the mondial and have a really good sense of what the real problem areas are of the mondial and the 308/328 series in general. Of course, it took almost a year of frustration, waffling,etc. As for this particular car, I may be able to get it for an extremely good price because the owner seems to understand my concerns. If that is the case, I am going to take the plunge because, with a wife and child, it is really hard to imagine taking a Sunday drive and leaving them at home. Also, I am beginning to think that my wife wouldn't mind the upkeep so much if the whole family could share in the experience. Lastly, with the new fusebox that birdman designed and all the great advice on this board, I am beginning to think that I can be proactive regarding some of the more common trouble spots. We will see
Joe, I bought a Mondial so that my family could enjoy it with me. After one ride, they were through. Be certain that your family really wants to ride around in it before you compromise with the four-seater. 308's and 328's are increasing in value. I don't think that the Mondial will be enjoying the same any time soon. As for the tech's comment, aside from the obvious, the major difference between the 3x8 and Mondial is the electrical system. It is the Mondial's Achilles heel. You cannot imagine how much fun it is to switch on the radio or roll down a window and have your headlights go out. How about losing your radiator fan if you try to roll both windows down at once? If the car you are looking at has an aftermarket radio with an amp or has an alarm, I would stay away. Those mess up an already weak system. The car in question probably has a lot of great features. If it has been stored properly, it should be in almost perfect condition. I would guess that there may be some problems with some of the seals and probably the brakes and clutch cylinder. I doubt that the A/C works. Of course, all of the belts need to be changed. However, much of the rest will be in very good condition with so few miles on the clock. To have all of that work done by a good shop, you could easily spend $10K. The car is worth somewhere in the low $30's in perfect condition. I'd buy the car, do the belts and fix what is obviously broken. If you can do all that and invest less than $30K, you will be fine.
Buy it! Do the maintenance! Drive it! Offering $25K would be OK if you have the $10K or so to keep in the Ferrari fund to do the belts, etc. and fix stuff that comes up. Sure I have the occasional electrical gremlin, but I have never been stranded by the car in 2 years of daily driving.
Was thinking about your wants/desires. By the time you get this Mondial straightened out you will be near $40k. Let me suggest another, more modern, exotic 4 seat convertible you can get in a auto or manual, for $45k or less. Meets every requirement but one: Aston Martin DB7 Plenty of power, very beautiful inside and out.
At 25K, I would have about 12-15K to get her up to snuff. At that point, I would have a very low mileage pretty pristine Mondial 3.2 convertible. Is that good or bad from an investment standpoint? Another words, are the better ways to spend mondial money. As for the DB7- I have briefly looked at the car online. They appear visually to be based on the Jaguar XKE, which I never thought of as much of a performance car. If I am thinking of the right model years, they come in 2 flavors, supercharged 6 and 12. Are they any good? How about reliability, engine noise, etc? My friend's Dad has a newer Aston Vanquish? I have only seen it once, but it was an absolute monster! I know absolutely nothing about Aston's. Love British cars though--have owned 3 Land Rovers and 2 Jaguars in my lifetime. Never had a problem with ANY of them, despite what consumer reports says! I do love those Ferraris though!
I hate to say it but in terms of looks, the DB7 just looks way too similar to the XK8 Jags. Not to mention, a few years ago my local Porsche/Bentley Dealer took a DB7 in trade toward a new Bentley. I asked my service advisor what he thought of the DB7. His exact words were, "Have you ever driven a 928 [Porsche]? Driving a DB7 is like driving a 928 only less exciting." 928s are very capable, comfortable, and fast, but I would not want to drive a less exciting version of that car. My service advisor also said that although the DB7 is fast its very heavy and not very sporty, it's more of a luxury cruiser. I tend to think most Ferraris even 2+2s (other than maybe a 456 or 365GTC/4) are still more sports car than luxury cruiser. I guess it depends on what qualities you want in a car. Best regards, Dino
I sold my perfect running Mondial QV for $27K. Do not ask me how much I spent to get it to that point. You are looking at a cosmetically perfect example that may need some mechanical work. The car probably has a maximum value of $35K, but who knows for sure? With a belt and fluid change, the car will run great, but it will probably drip on your garage floor. If you can get it for $25K, you will likely have to put another $5K into it right away. Figure another $3K per year to fix little things and put some miles on her. Just remember that it's a 20 year-old car.
I have an excellent Mondial 3.2 Cabriolet for sale in FerrariAds.com. http://www.ferrarichat.com/ferrariads/showproduct.php?product=1044&cat=all It's beautiful. All the work you are talking about has been done. The car won Platinum at Concorso Italiano in Monterey last year. Send me a PM or an email and take a look.
Thanks Mondialman. Car looks incredible. Unfortunately, I am on the other side of the country and it is going to be awhile until I can get a couple of days to make my way down to Cali. I have already made a couple of long trips looking at cars and I don't want to press my luck!
I purchased an 86 3.2 Mondial Cab from the authorized dealer in Hinsdale, IL last summer. It had the proper service history, 14,500 miles, and a recent belt change & service. They were asking $38 for it and I got it for $34,500. So far I've replaced an oil cooler hose (they paid for that since it blew on the first day) and the shift-shaft seal was found to be bad during this Spring's annual service. That cost me $2350 (including the annual service). It's an early '86, so it has the metric wheels and tires. I replaced the 22 year old TRX's with "new" ones from Coker tires to the tune of $1,650. The dealer suggested I budget about $2,500 a year for repairs, and I'm trying to do that until I have about 10K in a maintenance fund. So that's my personal initial cost of just doing the type of maintenance you would expect on a car of its age. As for the ownership experience - I LOVE the car, and I almost can't go for a ride without the kids in the back. Sure, Mondials will probably never appreciate in value like a 308/328, but a similar example of a 328 would wind up costing you about twice as much. A good Mondial seems to me to be a nice way to get into Ferrari ownership when you've got little kids and a limited bank account. Best of luck, and if you decide to stick to a Mondial - take your time and keep looking. Also, pm me if you don't have the Ferrari Life or Forza buyer's guides for Mondials and I'll be glad to get you any info I can. Enjoy the ride!!!
If it's as good as it sounds then $25K is a very good deal. Providing, of course, that you can do some of the work yourself. I've seen too many tired 3.2 Cabs listed at $35K (and up) that still need another 7k or more to make them right.
Don't feel guilty about buying a Ferrari in this lousy economy! You will be putting money into circulation. That's what a sick economy needs. The seller will take your money and buy other stuff and on and on. Money is like fertilizer, it's no good unless you spread it around! You want a Ferrari, get it. You only go around once (at most).
Very true. I think this mondial thing is going to work out. I know I am not going to get the resale I would on a 308, but it is really a perfect fit for me. More importantly, it has gotten the thumbs up from the family (not as much as the 993/996--but who cares). Life is a lot easier when the family is on your side. As for reliability, the 3.2 seems to be a pretty good car, and I have you guys to lean on for anything "peculiar" that comes up. Also, I want to apologize to anyone who has PM'd me in the past. I just learned how to do it today, and saw that I missed a bunch of really helpful folks. Thanks again...what a board!!!
the electricals' are the one issue with the mondials but with Clives new board coming along in the next month it will have that problem fixed. otherwise they are great cars and soooo much easier to service since the sub frame drops out with the motor unlike the 308/328 models. they cruise wonderfully and have more room. I've been driving mine daily (40miles) for the last 3yrs, coming up on the 100k mark real soon. If you want a sporty ride and better handling, changing the suspension will do wonders, a few of us in the Mondial Mafia have done so, and some others like me have gone nuts and tweaked the motor for more HP. it's an undervalued car and in my opinion a good buy. major service costs will run about 4k, after that it depends on what needs attention. I'd replace ALL the hoses, fuel, breather, vacuum and coolant; esp the ones that run thru the car to the radiator.
Joe I was faced with this same question a few months back. I did not end up buying the car I was looking at, because I thought the owner wanted too much money. The car I wanted was a 16k mile black/tan with the major just completed a year ago. He would not go lower than 35k. The car was beautiful, however the problem I had were a few things: first , the car had the original metric tires from new-this was going to be a 2500.00 fix to buy new wheels and tires. The car had only an owners manual and nothing else-this bothered me a little as the rest of the books and pouch are hard and expensive to get. The top, while in near perfect condition had 2 of the tiniest holes in the drivers side-you would not put a new top on over it but you could not ignore the fact that it was there. The deal breaker was the major service-it was done by a competent shop, however they did what I consider the bare minumum and did not replace an oil seal that typically leaks as it gets older, which would mean that the major that was done is worthless if it started to leak. With these issues, it was going to bring the car up to a 42,500.00 purchase which was a little high for a 3.2 mondi. The owner wanted no part in hearing what I had to say and the car is now going on its second year of being for sale. With all that being said, I think you will have a hard time prying a red/tan 3.2 cab with 10k on the clock from an owner for less than $30k , deferred maintenance or not, they are not easy to find. Let me say one other thing, the mondi is a great car and I cant wait to find the right one for me. Whoever disuaded you from buying it, is a fool for knocking it. They are fairly reasonable to maintain(compared to my TR) and the 3.2 is the best version of the mondi you can buy IMO.
I'm not sure you want a 20+ year old car with just 500 miles per year. That usually means it sat parked for long periods of time. Cars do not like sitting. Condition, maintenance, and documentation are more important than mileage.
Another thought: The Mondial probably will not appreciate (who buys these cars as investments anyway?) but it has probably reached the bottom of it's depreciation curve, so you probably won't lose on the deal. Not counting the upkeep costs over the years. Of course, those costs will make the depreciation cost relatively unimportant.
I have to confess. Up until now I have been EXTREMELY conservative regarding purchasing a Ferrari. But I have fallen in love with this car. It is still unclear whether the guy is going to end up parting with it, and it definitely needs a TON of maintenance. It is still on its original tires and if the belts got any more brittle you could use them for firewood. I am really trying to keep a level head, and I can't tell you how many cars I have rejected over little things. However, this one has gotten under my skin and, more importantly, the family LOVES it. We will see. He has all records and the car starts right up (although NOT RECOMMENDED) and has no leaks or apparent electrical glitches. So far the price does not seem to be the hold up, its just whether he wants to keep it as garage jewelry or move on to something else. Garage queens are funny. They look so perfect you almost forget they are rotting from the inside out. I will keep you posted! I know I know---I am an idiot and I am definitely going to get creamed on repairs. But you cant say I wasn't warned!! My only real holdback is going to be the compression test. I am afraid that with a car that has sat so long their may be some issues with piston rings, etc. Any engine problems are a definite deal breaker for me at any price. I will let you know--don't laugh at me (at least to my face).
Up at 6AM - off to car wash where I washed the grime off from the track day a couple of weeks ago. Back home by 7:30 with a clean dry car. Applied coat of ICE - had breakfast and returned to polish it to a brilliant Rosso Corsa. Left the house at 9:30AM to local car show - Two Boxers - two 308s - and me in the Mondi. Tons of other European cars. Cha=ching - Another first in class trophy! Drove home with the top down - with a symphony from the Ferrari engine. Steaks on the Bar-Bee and a glass of wine surfing FChat now. What a day! Image Unavailable, Please Login
