3.4L GTSi build

Discussion in '308/328' started by Newman, Apr 12, 2018.

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  1. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 Rookie
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    I pulled my heads at about 100K and the liners were like new. Popped a cap off and the bearings were like new too. Just did all the pulley bearings and seals (and rebuilt the heads with new guides). '85 QV
     
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  2. derekw

    derekw Formula Junior
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    They're looking very nice Paul (as usual.) Did you do the wrinkle finish yourself? Any tips on getting it nice and even? I saw similar pitting in some of my rod bearings and it was the two that sat in oil mixed with coolant while the car was parked for a few years. The water acted as an electrolyte between the steel of the crank pin and the white metal of the bearing.

    "My understanding is the tooth design is proprietary, not just a simple square and you can see that its not just a square tooth. Is the aftermarket pulley getting around this legality with a slightly different tooth or is it a machining error?"


    I had this problem with the first group buy batch (hence the delay by a few months to get them re-machined.) The Dayco S trapezoidal belt is a proprietary but old design so there is no legal issue. It is similar to the standard ISO "L" tooth but most manufacturers use the old Uniroyal "L" tooth design from the '70's and to complicate matters, the Chinese have their own version of the "L" which was probably made slightly different for patent reasons. It's a good tip to wrap a belt tightly around the pulley to check.
     
  3. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Thats great and a friend of mine has one that isn't so lucky with less kms. And thats only one example of many Ive tested or worked on, Testarossa is in the same boat. Ferrari went back to steel liners for a reason albeit not cast iron but they got away from aluminum / nikasil. The problem with the nikasil comes when you go to rebuild it. The new liners or the reconditioned ones are not machined in your block or any block for that matter. So getting a dead straight and round one once installed with a head clamped on it is pretty much impossible.
     
  4. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    I use a local powder coater for my wrinkle and any other powder coating or ceramic coatings I need.
     
  5. Ferraridoc

    Ferraridoc F1 Rookie
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    If it came to liner replacement, I'd go all in with new liners and 360 crank plus HC pistons, ITB's....AAARRRGGHH!

    Sent from my SM-N920I using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  6. hyenahf

    hyenahf Formula 3
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    hmm, bone stock, affordable and bullet proof the 80's honda B16 motor 8200 redline, over 100hp per liter, first series production motor to do so. same B16B motor in type R spec in the 90's: a whopping 117hp per liter with a redline at 9000 ! more powerful than a f355 per liter without the valve guide or header melted issues. and you only change belts every 90k instead of 30k

    but im very much in agreement with you on the 308 motor. though dated and heavy, its most likely the most durable and reliable italian vintage exotic car motor out there. i think its a wonderful unit. i only wish it sounded a bit better :)
     
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  8. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Another thing to consider is the tooling from the era. Looking at virgin engines Ive found that the specs are all over the place. Things like liner protrusion up and down, main clearances on the loose side and tight on the same engine and loose rod clearances. I don't think the bearing quality is the problem, I think its the tooling and the sloppiness at the time and the tooling being a big offender to repeatability. Today the tooling and the desire to pay close attention to detail on a case by case basis makes these Ferrari engines even better than what the blueprint had intended.
     
  9. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula Junior

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    Those bearings don’t look worn, they look corroded.
     
  10. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    I meant in general regarding the comparison to the newer Honda engine reference.

    Both bearings on one throw were badly worn. The one with the pitting could be the effect of excesse heat. The bearing lost its crush and was grabbing the crank but hadn’t spun yet and there’s no way it would’ve had proper even lubrication. Was it a piece of debris that went to that rod throw initially and restricted flow? Possible. I didn’t dig for reasons because it was getting a different crank anyway.
     
  11. hyenahf

    hyenahf Formula 3
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    Early 308 may have been assembled by disgruntled workers. Many labor strikes were happen through out the Italy and the sediment may have been at Maranello as well?

    sloppiness yes, some of the worst welds I've ever seen are 308s from the 70's. I've heard stores of odd things being hidden in the door cavities like empty cigarette packages or pages from a nudie calendar. If you ever been to an Italian assembly line or garage, their calendars would make a gynecologist blush :)

    Newer cars are precisely tool and assembled. Much more automation involved reducing the "Monday" built syndrome.
     
  12. jkstevens2

    jkstevens2 Karting
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    Looks like you are doing a class a job
     
  13. Albert-LP

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    Maybe, who knows. We Italians do love girls, but I wouldn't ever waste a nudie calendar into a Ferrari: better having it hanging on the wall! (ok, I'm a sexual maniac...)

    If you want to see real low quality, you have to see a Lamborghini of those years: 308 engine is very reliable if compared to the previous Ferrari.

    In any case they were hand assembled (they did no more than some 308 a day, from 5 to 10 units) so an error is always a possibility.

    ciao
     
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  15. 328GTB

    328GTB Formula Junior
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  16. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    A local plating house.
     
  17. sp1der

    sp1der Formula 3
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    The factory was actually poorly lit as well not helping matters
     
  18. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh Formula 3
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    So Paul, you are saying that somewhere I can find aluminum OEM pulleys?
     
  19. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    No, OEM are steel and you can get them from several sources.
     
  20. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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  21. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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  22. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Heads go on next and Ill degree in the cams then pull the heads to add playdough, heads then go back on to roll the crank around 2 revolutions getting my valve impressions. Then the heads come off to measure actual piston to valve clearance both radially and depth-wise before moving forward. Its a pain to do but if you don't check, you don't know. I might get lucky skipping this step but then again I might not.

    Ring gaps checked, all 8 pistons in.


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  23. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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  24. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Two Time F1 World Champ
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    That engine looks like a freaking work of art.

    I wouldn't want to put it in my car - it would get dirty
     
  25. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    #48 Ferraripilot, Jun 14, 2018 at 7:04 AM
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018 at 7:11 AM
    Paul, I heard FormulaGT in Munich built one of these motors recently using their super-secret proprietary cam and valvetrain, opened intake ports (would not tell me how much) and saw north of 350bhp at the crank on carburetors. I couldn't get much else out of them, and probably for good reason! Was making an inquiry to order one of their fiberglass trunk lids which weigh some 12lbs and they were kind enough to engage in conversation about this motor.

    For me, another dozen bhp isn't worth the massive time it would take to get into the head work but I can believe gains can be had there. That and I think any more power than these 3.4L motors bring just doesn't fit the chassis. 330-340bhp is pretty much max then it just starts to feel like the car has too much power for the chassis and brakes. Just MO.
     
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  26. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    The 4V EFI 3.4 version I did made quite a bit more than the carb'd ones Ive done and I didn't find it to be too much lol. I think 450HP would be a nice number :)
     
  27. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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