3.4L project | Page 7 | FerrariChat

3.4L project

Discussion in '308/328' started by Ferraripilot, Jun 21, 2011.

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  1. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #151 snj5, Mar 8, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Found a photo of my collection of DCNF velocity stacks. If using the original box, would go with the small ones. Airboxes are a science unto themselves, believe me.
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  2. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #152 snj5, Mar 8, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I know I said 34mm venturis to start, but there is every reason to think that 36s will be what you eventually find gives you the best numbers.

    If you haven't seen this Weber factory chart, it will give you an idea...
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  3. Ferraripilot

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    John!
    Hmm, do you think going to a 34 or 36 will ruin throttle response? I certainly thought about going larger but I don't want to ruin any response. The large increase in displacement will certainly help things along but I want to tread lightly at first not changing too much, unless of course your experiences have been that this is the way to go.
     
  4. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #154 snj5, Mar 8, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2012
    Would get my initial jetting on 34s - but it is my bet that you can do 36's easy with 3.4 liters and a cam and cover up any drivability issues with a rich idle jet. Heck, that's how Ferrari SpA did it in the 50s and 60s on all of their road comp cars. It's in the family, but you may want to keep the hotter plugs... :)
     
  5. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
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    John,
    This chart (and info) that Russ shows was in the Passini book that you and I spoke of quite some time ago. http://www.amazon.com/Weber-Carburettors-Theory-John-Passini/dp/0903192403 A great reference book for all die-hard Weber junkies.
     
  6. Ferraripilot

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    bought! thanks David! I searched for it some time ago but could not locate it. Huge thanks for pointing this out
     
  7. wazie7262

    wazie7262 Formula 3

    Feb 13, 2008
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    Awesome, John :) What are the HP and torque specs you're expecting/shooting for? Sorry if you've already posted this; I've not yet read this entire thread.
     
  8. Ferraripilot

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    #158 Ferraripilot, Mar 9, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2012
    Going for 320bhp with 270lbs tq. So around 260-270 at the wheels. I'll expand on this a bit.

    I don't think this is an unreasonable figure considering I have seen like-Porsche 911 2 valve engines with less total intake flow capability churn out 340bhp at the flywheel. And those are not race engines. Within the past year a very nice 3.3L 911 engine (10.5:1 cpr) was tested with PMO carbs and DC80 cams which are a very hot cam and sort of a track cam and it made 334bhp. For the race end of things, I know of a solid 3.2L 2valve carbureted engine with basically a P6 cam duration but with a bit more lift made 338bhp, and that was with just 3.2L yet of course spinning the thing to kingdom come. So expecting a little less than that but with a bit more torque with 3.4L is within sane conjecture. The computer simulator says 336bhp IIRC with 274lbs tq and it's roughly accurate when used within a degree of correctness.

    The simulated torque curve is nice and flat starting very early at around 2k rpm with a big chunk of the bhp coming in around 4-5k with max bhp being a simulated 7500rpm (stock max bhp rpm is usually 6500rpm-ish). Big torque in the lower rpms is what I was looking for though as that's really what's needed when just noodling the thing around town.
     
  9. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
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    This thread is so cool. A carb 3.4!!!! DAMN!!! Great work!
     
  10. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    John!
    Just ordered some 36mm chokes. Tons more flow and per the weberfiles out there (Russ, Iean you!) I am going to give them a shot. I figured Russ is getting away with 38mm chokes with 44dcnfs with a good bit less cam and less displacement so 36mm with more displacement should be gravy
     
  11. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    John!
    IT RUNS! The thing is literally alive under my right foot. Unreal throttle response. I never thought a 308 engine could snarl, but this snarls. I ran it for 20 minutes to break in the cam and am currently having it cool down. At first I thought something was hitting something due to a ticking sound, but it went away shortly. I'm guessing it was pistons rattling around a bit until they warmed up. Strange considering I'm running .0025-.0032ish piston to wall clearance. No worries though as it sounds very nice once it was warmed a bit. I'll get a vid going once I have stuff figured out a bit further. But for now, life is good.
     
  12. MNExotics

    MNExotics F1 Rookie
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    Congrats John

    Really looking forward to that video
     
  13. 4right

    4right F1 Rookie
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    That's great news John., looking forward to video!
     
  14. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran

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    Great to hear the news. It must have been pretty cool having your baby come alive. Did you hold your hands up and yell "It's alive". Congratulations, and can't wait to hear about your driving adventure with it.
     
  15. hyenahf

    hyenahf F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2004
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    cool... congrats on firing it up!

    keep us posted please

    hf
     
  16. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    well done.
     
  17. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    John!

    Russ, I was constantly running rich and fouling plugs last night! That was with 145/200 F24 tubes and 55 idles. I think it just wants to be driven. Weird



    As a side note. I can't say enough about how awesome the megajolt programmable ignition system is. I just pop on the laptop and change the curve to whatever and however I want. Easy.
     
  18. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    And one more shameless plug. People need to get with the program and get one of my awesome radiators. I cannot make this thing overheat. I had it outside yesterday in 80 degree weather sitting at 2500rpm-3500rpm for 20 minutes without the fans on, ever. Great radiator and I'm tickled it's working out as I wanted it to.
     
  19. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    You know what it is. I bet it's some bad fuel I've had sitting in the tank for 7 months. I did add a couple gallons of fresh fuel before starting it and thought I had maybe a couple gallons of the old stuff in there thinking the new fuel would even stuff out. Stupid mistake. That stuff shouldn't sit for more than a couple months I hear.
     
  20. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran

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    I have to agree on this one! John the radiator has been great. Although my fans do kick on it is rare. The temps are usually on the low side which is great but now I need to get out of the habit of watching the gauge which has been habitual since owning the car. It just isn't an issue (gauge watching) anymore.
     
  21. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
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    That's ok - you want to start rich and lean down - far far better than the other way; You are right where you want to be.
    First thing to do is to drop those 55 idles down to 50, it may get by with less because of the amount of suck; ensure you did use a hotter plug. It is typically idles that foul plugs as most driving is on transition circuit, especially with your torque monster. Now, need to determine where it is rich - low, high, or across the range. If across the range, drop to 140s, then stepwise down as needed. The vacuum signal from those 425 cc cylinders pulling across a 34mm venturi are also part of the equation - if you have not put in your 36s, would do it now - will take about 35 minutes with the carbs in place (Oh, the beauty of Webers! Just becareful of dropping things down the throat). If rich high, would go to 210 air correctors.. Be very careful on air correctors - it is better to be a tad rich at full load and high rpm.
    I am so jealous - this is the fun part.
     
  22. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    Caveat for new folks: please do not attempt carb jetting until the ignition is dead on and the vacuum signals are synchronized.
    This is really pretty cool....
     
  23. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran

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  24. Matto

    Matto Formula 3

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    Big congratulations on the car up and running. Which awesome radiator though, do you build them?
     
  25. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran

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    PM sent
     

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