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308/328 cam belt drive bearings

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by RGigante, Feb 8, 2012.

  1. RGigante

    RGigante F1 Rookie
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    Guys,

    I have the following cam belt drive bearing references for a 308/328. Can you please confirm the references for the outer 328 and 308 bearings?

    308
    Inner SKF 6201-J
    outer SKF 6203-2RS1/C4HT51 or 6203-2RS1/C4VG154 ?

    328
    outer SKF 630647

    Thanks!
     
  2. RGigante

    RGigante F1 Rookie
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    So judging by this thread http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92021&page=4 it seems to go like this:


    Early 308's and GT4's (both bearings lubricated by engine oil)
    Inner SKF 6201-J
    Outer SKF 6203 (can be 6203-2RS1/C4HT51 stripped of its shields)

    Late Carb'd cars, Injected Cars, & QVs
    Inner SKF 6201-J
    Outer SKF 6203-2RS1/C4HT51

    328
    Inner ??????
    Outer SKF 630647


    However, judging by most parts suppliers the later type outer bearing fits "288 GTO, 3.2 Mondial/Cabriolet/T, 308 Quattrovalvole, 308 Quattrovalvole USA, 328 GTB/GTS, F40, GTB/GTS Turbo, Mondial Quattrovalvole Cabriolet, Mondial Quattrovalvole USA"

    I see that the inner bearings are the same for cars up to the Quattrovalvole but the 3.2 engine uses a different one. Is SKF 6201-J in fact for the 3.0 engine or for the 3.2 ?

    It would be great to hear from those that have already replaced theirs and can help with facts! Yes, I want to replace my 328 bearings next winter :)
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    Just for the 3.0 inner. For the basic bearing sizes, I have:

    3.0 2-valve thru early 308 4-valve:
    inner = SKF 6201 = 12 ID x 32 OD x 10 wide
    outer = SKF 6203 = 17 ID x 40 OD x 12 wide

    late 3.0 4-valve and 3.2 4-valve:
    inner = SKF 6301 = 12 ID x 37 OD x 12 wide
    outer = SKF 630647 = 17 ID x 44 OD x 14 wide
     
  4. RGigante

    RGigante F1 Rookie
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    Thanks Steve! Great info!
     
  5. afterburner

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    #5 afterburner, Feb 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The inner bearing pictures on the left is an original SKF (note the engraved markings).
    The outer bearing pictured on the right is a fake SKF (note the absence of any markings).
    Both bought via the official channel and packed in original boxes.
    12'000 mls later, the front outer bearing seized and destroyed the pulley drive shaft in the process.

    Of course I shouldn't have put the one without markings in...
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  6. RGigante

    RGigante F1 Rookie
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    Thanks for the wakeup call!! I will keep that in mind!
    By the way, would you know a source for SKF 630647?
     
  7. afterburner

    afterburner Formula 3
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    Superformance and Eurospares both had them in stock when I checked for the repair.
     
  8. vincenzo

    vincenzo Formula 3

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    Was the oil contaminated with water?
    Rgds,
    Vincenzo
     
  9. afterburner

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    Actually, those are SEALED bearings not in contact with any other lubricant than the original grease packed at the factory - so, if there was a water issue, it must have been in there "originally". It sure looks like rust... really nasty. The other side looked OK but didn't feel quite right either.
     
  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    True that that outer (shown with the box) is a sealed bearing, but I wouldn't be happy about receiving a SKF bearing with "RS" seals rather than "RS1" seals. The RS seals can be either Polyurethane (low temp) or synthetic rubber (high temp); whereas, the RS1 seals are synthetic rubber -- could be a bit of a cr*p shoot for the RS seal material.
     
  11. RGigante

    RGigante F1 Rookie
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    Yes, I'm aware of that, but at £128 or £96 plus VAT each I'd rather find an SKF source, if there is one. I coudn't find one so far ...
     
  12. afterburner

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    Have you contacted the local SKF representative?
     
  13. afterburner

    afterburner Formula 3
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    Thank you for that insight Steve!
     
  14. RGigante

    RGigante F1 Rookie
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    Yes, not available ...
     
  15. afterburner

    afterburner Formula 3
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    Oh strange they cannot order it?
     
  16. 350HPMondial

    350HPMondial F1 Rookie

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    #16 350HPMondial, Feb 19, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Steve,

    Over the past 10 years,, "Thanks!" for all the free information about Ferraris, in general.
    ( You sure know your Guido stuff.)

    For my Late build 1981 Mondial 8, F-106 motore', 308 2V, outer bearing front cover..
    I indeed hope my "Shielded," SKF bearings are not faux,,, aka fake.
    I also hope they don't weep grease.

    Edwardo
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  17. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    Yes, it's not a disaster to have used the shielded type outer bearing (based on how we usually drive our F). The bigger risk is water intrusion from the outside, but the belt drive sprocket does cover them fairly well, and does form a fairly good labrynith path to protect from outside water spray -- but don't drive thru any 0,5 m deep water puddles ;)
     
  18. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
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    Any thoughts on this versus the ideal C4, Steve?
     
  19. 2NA

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    Some guys wash their cars so often they might as well drive through deep water.

    Less washing, more driving. ;)
     
  20. Steve Magnusson

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    Not sure that I would label either C3 or C4 as "ideal" as I've never seen any solid information about what the Designer really specified (and it might be different for the early vs late design). IMO, a bearing purchased from a F part supplier today, even a F Dealer, can still be sort of a "substitute" as lubes have changed, SKF now has the magic "Explorer" designation (whatever that means), etc.. Also, I'd say that it is a bit like spark plug heat ranges where there might be a true optimal, but +/-1 either way can usually still be OKish.

    My personal preference would be to use C3 (extra radial clearance) on the early design as any outer bearing radial runout gets magnified by about ~2X into the sprocket runout by the mounting geometry. Also, since the early design has the outer bearing running in the engine oil bath, its temperature should be lower and more uniform (so less differential expansion for outer race vs inner race and less need for the initial, room-temperature radial clearance to accommodate this). For the later design, I'd go with the C4 (extra extra radial clearance) as the runout magnification to the sprocket is reduced, and the temperature might be higher and less uniform for outer race vs inner race. JMO -- use at your own risk ;)
     
  21. afterburner

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    Any engraved or edged markings on the bearing itself?
    I am pretty sure the cardboard boxes of my fake bearings were original...
     
  22. RGigante

    RGigante F1 Rookie
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    I'm trying other sources, let's see how it turns out.
     
  23. Mondial86-71

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    Getting into the front cover removal to get into the inner bearings.i see your picture shows the cover off! Any insight or more pictures of the cover coming off?I am pulling the oil pan off "again" to get a better look inside at the pickup tube.any pointers would be greatly appreciated
    Thanks
    Ryan
     
  24. afterburner

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    theunissenguido likes this.
  25. Mondial86-71

    Mondial86-71 Rookie

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    Thank you very much for the tips! They helped me greatly in this process. Believe it or not I got the oil pickup tube out with the oil pan off! I had to cut and weld some custom wrenches to get the pickup tube nuts off..not an easy thing to do but after struggling for a couple hours it was out. Removing the studs from under the cover plate it came off pretty easily. Picked up a bearing puller yesterday and will try to get the inners out today. Waiting for the new bearings to arive in the mail hopefully today! A trip to Algar on Monday to get that little seal and new cam bolts any will be read for reassembly.
    Thank you again
    Ryan
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