308/328 dry weights

Iain

This has been discussed in quite some detail in a previous thread titled" What to look for with a Euro 3x8"....

Search for this thread and read up,you will find it quite interesting!!!

The U.S.A cars really are porkers......

Cheers,

Pete

 

Still, I think it would be interesting to have all the correct data listed in this thread.
Does someone know all this of all 3X8, dry weight and curb weight, in lbs and kg? and weight to power ratios?

 

Here we go again. Ok I will port what I know to be true. Ferrari was as creative with their weight figures as they were with their bhp figures. Also, Euro manual published figures were just listed as "your car weighs this much" rather than dry weights vs wet. US manuals had dry and wet weights listed but those are still a bit off.

The major parts differences with US cars compared to Euro cars are as follows: bumpers and a little extra bracing for the bumpers (100lbs), emissions crap (20-30lbs), cats depending on year (15lbs), some cars got a light space-saver spare, bracing in doors (5lbs), thermo exhaust systems on earliest cars weighed a ton (100lbs+), but everyone seems to have tossed those by now.

Here's what I know: these are all cars with a/c
-Euro QV GTS and weighed his at 2950lbs with about 1/4 tank (thank you Branko!)
-US QV GTS with stainless exhaust, otherwise stock with about 1/4 tank. little over 3100lbs
-Euro fiberglass GTB with about zero fuel and space saver spare. 2825lbs. (I have seen another weighed in at just over 2890lbs but I am sure that had more fuel)
-early US steel GTB '76 with Ansa sports exhaust, emissions crap, tools, spare, and 1/4 tank (my car). just under 3000lbs. I am in the process of removing all this crap and have Euro bumpers now and have the weight down to 2910lbs. emissions crap still in the car.
-another fchatter with a '77 GTB weighed his US car with Euro bumpers and it was over 3000lbs. how this happened I have no idea because my car is essentially the same car but weighs quite a bit less. Front and back US bumpers weigh 80lbs while glass replacements weigh about 3lbs.


Same goes for bhp figures. Here on fchat, we have seen plenty of US cars equal or pull greater bhp than Euro cars. It just depends on how they are set up.

 

Bluemel's books should not be taken as gospel, there are a number of errors. A real world difference of about 150 lbs sounds about right.

Dave

 

One other stealthy component of the emission stuff that adds weight is the extra thermal insulation/shielding added to the chassis because of the higher temperatures in the exhaust system.

 

That's true Steve, the elevated trunk in US cars does have some foam etc, but I have no idea how much it weighs. How much can foam weigh lol.

 

maybe someone should drive their ferrari to the local metal salvage yard
and have their car weighed.

make sure the scales have a current weights & measures sticker from the
county government displayed.

 

cool thread. i read the other one as well. i'm in the process of removing the US bumpers on my GTB. i didn't know about the extra foam and chassis reinforcements. blah. good info to be found on these two threads.

 

I know that is what Branko did. I have had mine weighed on both a truck scale and a corner scale with individual pads. Those truck scales are accurate within 25 pounds. not bad, not graet

 

On an early carbed GTB/GTS....

I looked at the front frame section from an early euro 308 that was cut up for parts. It had a quarter of the steel used on a US spec car, and the rear end is just as heavy. US cars have something like 1x3's of steel tube in the ends, euros are like 3/4" x 3/4" in comparison, much lighter. I dont know what that would add to a US car, but thats all there to carry those 75 pounds heavier US bumpers. Then add the 130 pound Reaction chamber muffler. Door beams, DOT glass, an extra distributor, an air pump with a bunch of garbage, more hoses, A/C system, and many many pounds of extra insulation and heat shields. Its not at all surprising the early US 308 is over 300 pounds heavier than its euro brethren.

Someone posted a bill of lading on an early steel 308 shipped in Europe recently, at around 2700 pounds IIRC.

 

I have one of those "porker" US 308GTSi's (1982) and had it weighed at the local recycling depot this past fall - with me (200lbs) and half a tank and spare etc. it was 3,318lbs. So, without me in there that's 3,118lbs. Definitely no lightweight, but not quite as bad as quoted.....

 

I am having a new Magnaflow muffler installed on my car as we speak. I walked into the shop yesterday and went over to lift the stock muffler off of the floor to see how heavy it was, and I could BARELY lift the bloody thing. I am not kidding when I say it weighed at least 50-60 lbs when I expected it to be around 25...

The new magnaflow weighs about 7 lbs, so if you want to trim some of the fat, this is a good place to start...

MB

 

I think the bill of landing you speak of was the Euro glass GTB Papa G shipped over to Massachusetts from Germany. He posted the bill of landing was 2844lbs with just a tiny bit of fuel.


http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228757&highlight=308+euro+bill

 

What about the rear diaper? that has to weigh something?

Cheers

 

Yes, but I dont think much. The extra bracing placed at the rear of the car for the US bumper standards is not a whole lot. Mine was removed from the car and the rear end modified to Euro look so I have no idea how to conjecture on the diaper thing. I think it would depend on which diaper as well because I believe they were different, carb, 2vi, 4v etc.

 

Yes - correct. Full size 16 in. spare tire, A/C, tools,jack, and not many records LOL!!

 

Not much. Have lifted that up too and it is very light actually...

MB

 

Just had a Euro '79 GTB shipped to the States, and the BOL puts the weight at 1375 kilos (3025lb). The car is wearing 16" wheels, and the original 14" set was included in the sale; assuming the originals were in the car when it was weighed, it's probably just under 3000lb. I don't know how they weigh cars for shipping, but I imagine it's pretty close given how critical an accurate number is to that business.

 

In addition to all those differences already mentioned I remember reading in a similar discussion years ago that there were also weight adding differences in the forward engine bulkhead to satisfy a US regulation (at least in the GT4). On top of the regulation induced changes there is also potential increased weight from equipment that was standard on US models such as leather and AC which were optional in other markets. Yes, the US spec cars are porkers relative to cars from other markets, we get more stuff but less value. "Less is more" comes to mind.

 

Old thread but when I weighed my first 308GTB, a 79 US spec car with the proper bumpers and diaper but no converters or air injection it weighed 3079lbs on the local dump scale.

My 77 I plan to weigh in the very near future after being put on a serious diet. 2800 lbs would be nice.

 

That and an engine that is 185 hp on a good day.

 

I had mine down to 2850lbs with half a tank and Euro bumpers and I didn’t replace any steel components. Deleting all the AC stuff would probably get it close to 2800.

The doors and engine lid are also really heavy (engine lid weights 55lbs, doors are something like 65lbs each or so) , going fiberglass for both of those probably nets at least 100lbs weight loss getting you in the 2700lbs range, which would be super cool. The modern fiberglass units made in Germany weighed maybe 10lbs each (doors or deck lid).

FormulaGT in Munich make this stuff, I’ve seen and held the glass deck lid they make, it is crazy light while but also rigid, they also make doors. I’ve seen photos of their doors, they have an aluminum chassis so it accepts the stock window mechanism. It’s crazy how much lighter modern fiberglass is compared to 40 years ago when it didn’t weigh a whole lot less than steel once it was all done.

 

I googled and found engine parts but not the glass parts you speak of...can you post a link?