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308/328 Headlight Shootout - The Results Are In!

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Mike328, Jul 4, 2005.

  1. monzagorilla

    monzagorilla Rookie

    Mar 12, 2004
    7
    Big Flats, NY USA
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    Pat Scopelliti
    One more source for bulbs and Hella lamps (they used to do Cibie a while back but seem to have dropped them) is Susquehanna Motorsports at http://www.rallylights.com/
     
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  3. tatcat

    tatcat F1 Veteran
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    Sep 3, 2001
    8,358
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    rick c
    does the wiring harness/relay/switch circuit come with installation instructions for monkeys? this sounds great and probaly is not a difficult change over for most humans but us monkey boys need a good map with lots of pictures?
     
  4. BigAl

    BigAl F1 Veteran

    Mar 17, 2002
    6,146
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    GSgt Hartman
    GREAT post, thnx! I upgraded to Hellas a while back and saw the kink to the right and thought something was wrong or had I installed them incorrectly or something. I however didn't see dramatic improvement, some improvement yes, but not dramatic; certainly an improvement over stock.
     
  5. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Although generally a straightforward process, fabricating the actual harness from the pieces was something of a mini project, even with the instructions. All the wiring work I had done previously came in handy--you'll need crimpers, wire ties, electrical tape, heat shrink tubing, wire, and possibly some spade connectors.

    Once you HAVE the harness, installation is quite easy from an electrical connections standpoint, though you have to make a connection at the battery. You'll also have to remove your headlights from the headlight buckets...
     
  6. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
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    Paul
    Wow, what a great post, very interesting. And I can add something on Cibie's. Back in around 1982, I put a set on a car with 2 headlamp ractangular bulbs. I have yet in my life to ever have driven a car with brighter headlights. The low beams were almost to bright, and the high beams were unbelievable. We did go up to I think 65/100 watt bulbs, but they were really to bright. I know that with an open flat and level road at night on high beam, the reflective range was beyond 10 miles. I am serious, you could pick out a road sign, push the trip meter, and wait for that sign to get to you and it just always impressed me. But they were outright blinding to anyone else. I actually recall being able to identify a car parked several hundred feet off the road from almost a 1/4 mile away. They were that bright.

    But I also noticed that as they aged, and as they became pitted, they lost a great deal of thier light output, and the pattern went all askew. At the last I found a set of sylvania sealed beams worked better. So protecting the lights with something is highly recommended. I also feel, there are some dimninishing returns from being to bright, in that your eyes can dialate down to much from the reflected bright light intensity, and you lose out on a lot of night vision to see out a side window, or to see outside or beyond the light beams . I live in Minnesota, land of 10,000 deer/car accidents, and because almost all are at night, I have a theory that its from people driving with high beams on, as much as possible. I have taught myself to drive on low beams no matter what the circumstance, and just slow down a bit, and so far I can say I am lucky. If any of you are backyard astronomers, you know what a flashlight in your eyes will do when your eyes are fully dialated. Think what a pair of 100 watt Cibie's will do to a deer. A new set of Cibie's with low wattage bulbs should work very well indeed.
     
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  8. tatcat

    tatcat F1 Veteran
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    Sep 3, 2001
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    rick c
    in what way does the relay protect the headlite switch? does it reduce the amps? modulate the current flow?
     
  9. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

    Jan 22, 2003
    4,123
    Black Forest Germany
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    Martin N.
    the original layout means, that the current for the headlights goes through the contacts in the headlight stalk.
    A relay setup means, that those wires, which until now delivered the current for the headlight bulbs, now only supply the current for the relay coils, which is only 0,xx amps.
    The current for the bulbs is now switched directly from the battery across the contacts inside the relay.
    Two or three weeks ago I have performed this task on my 308 GTB using the empty relay slots on the original panel.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74764&highlight=308+relay

    O.k., therefore the wires to the headlights are still fairly long, but I used 2,5² ( 10 gauge ? american ? ) wires for the main current supply from the battery / fuse box to the relays.
    And once again, the difference in brightness is significant. And I have no more headlight current affecting the headlight stalk.

    Best Regards

    Martin
     
  10. tatcat

    tatcat F1 Veteran
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    Sep 3, 2001
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    danke, martin. the photos were helpful. i've been afflicted by electrical problems for many years in various vehicles and by this time one would have thought i'd learned to deal with them but...... oh well, once more into the breach.
     
  11. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
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    Feb 24, 2002
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    Robert Garven
    As cool as this all seems I just want to find a Tung-Sol 12V 5001 High beam for my gt4. I dont drive at night much and want to keep the car stock. I read some real cool stuff about Tung-sol they were manufactuers of some of the best tubes ever. Anyway the OM says the sealed beams are 37.5 watts and 37.5/60 for the dip beams. Does anyone know where I can get these???

    Rob
     
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  13. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
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    #60 robertgarven, Oct 24, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I found them! Damit I have a 75 car and I want to see no better than I would have in 1975! Airbags!! Real men go through the windshield. I almost fell for you guy's modern science!!

    My name is Cirroc. Your modern world frightens and confuses me. When I see a solar eclipse, like the one I went to last year at that resort in Hawaii, I think 'Oh no! Is the moon eating the sun?' I don't know. I'm a caveman; that's the way I think. Sometimes I wish I was frozen again, so I could get thawed in a couple thousand years and drive a flying car.

    Unfrozen caveman lawyer
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  14. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
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    #61 robertgarven, Oct 24, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I'm just a caveman. I fell on some ice and later got thawed out by some of your scientists. Your world frightens and confuses me! Sometimes the honking horns of your traffic make me want to get out of my Ferrari.. and run off into the hills, or wherever.. Sometimes when I get a message on my fax machine, I wonder: "Did little demons get inside and type it?" I don't know! My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts. Hoiw am I to comprehend these new magic balls of fire you speak of. I have just begun to believe in the magic of these sealed beam devices.....
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  15. hanknum

    hanknum Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    2,050
    Santa Barbara
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    Henry
    Maybe a step between stock and going the H4 route is the Sylvania Silver Stars. I replaced one (haven't gotten to the other side yet) and it is a definite improvement. The light is much whiter than the old one. It runs about $20-25 each. Worth a try. I'll try and take some pix soon. I may still rewire in the future too.

    Henry
     
  16. rolindsay

    rolindsay Formula 3

    Jul 14, 2006
    1,022
    Houston, TX
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    Rick Lindsay
    ...but you're a heavy metal cavemen! ;-)

    rick - houston,tx
    '79 308GTB #28133 without sealed beams...
     
  17. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
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    Greg Calo
    Hoen has excellent xenon compatible bulbs, and i'll bet they have them for the 3X8 series.

    Don't sell them short.

    Take a look at what thay have.

    See: http://www.hoen-usa.com/contact.htm

    I have used many of their bulbs in M-B's and in my 360. Far better products than Sylvania, and I say that from experience!
     
  18. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Oct 19, 2002
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    Just to be clear, that is not a true HID (High Intensity Discharge) system--these are enhanced standard bulbs, the general concept of which is available under many different names.

    The general idea remains. Upgrade your lamp housings to non-sealed beams; this will impact your bulb pattern. Spend an afternoon installing some basic wiring to run the current for the headlights directly off of the battery with a fused, relayed harness. Finally, invest in high quality bulbs, going up a notch in wattage ("overwattage") bulbs if needed.
     
  19. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
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    Greg Calo
    What you did for research is incredible.

    Hoen's bulbs are not HID's. They are Xenon compatible, and they have other bulbs as well.

    Take a look to see if they can be of help.
     
  20. JCR

    JCR F1 Veteran
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    Mar 14, 2005
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    H-Town, Tejas
  21. Pizzaman Chris

    Pizzaman Chris F1 Rookie

    Mar 13, 2005
    3,885
    New Hampshire
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    Chris "Pizzaman"
    Hi Guys,

    Where do you tap into for power? I don't want to go into Birdman's fuseblocks, everything is working fine. (knock on wood) :)

    Is it straight to the battery? Or do i have to splice somewhere?

    Thanks
     
  22. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    2,507
    +! This was my question throughout this great thread. It would be nice to have an elegant solution for this.
     
  23. AP328

    AP328 Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 5, 2005
    83
    Canada
    I would like to order some products from Daniel, does anyone know his phone number, I don't see it on his website.

    I don't use Outlook and can't use his e-mail link, does anyone know his e-mail address?
     
  24. Prancer

    Prancer Rookie

    Apr 16, 2004
    12
    Ottawa, Canada
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    Ron
    Daniel may no longer be in business. Earlier this year, I tried in vain to contact him. Did not receive a response to my email message (sent to his email address listed in his web site). I also tried to track down (via internet search) an operating phone number - no luck whatsoever.
     
  25. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Oct 19, 2002
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    Mike
    It's been a few years since I spoke to Daniel as well. He was a fantastic resource for helping figure out the right way to go.

    If people are interested, it should be straightforward to hunt down some of those Cibie lenses and Narva bulbs, and make a custom harness with Bosch relays and such. It can still be done!

    Sourcing the Cibie H4 7" E-Codes may be tricky, but I think if you hunt, you can find 'em.

    Here's one option maybe?
    http://www.talbotco.com/e-code_lamps.htm

    Here's another promising option:
    http://www.clearcorners.com/products/cibie/

    The Narva bulbs should be a bit easier to find.


    --Mike
     
  26. JCR

    JCR F1 Veteran
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    Mar 14, 2005
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  27. rsqrd308

    rsqrd308 Formula Junior

    Oct 27, 2007
    357
    Phoenix AZ
    Full Name:
    Rick Roth
    I have done this on all my 911's as soon as I got them. Same problems, the lights are swithced thru really TINY contacts in the stalks (esp the high beams!) .. There is a fellow in the P-car world that sells a kit with instructions, wires (all labeled) and relays for $20.

    But not too hard to make one yourself.
     
  28. bradyzq

    bradyzq Rookie

    Aug 20, 2010
    1
    Montreal, QC, Canada
    Full Name:
    Brady Moffatt
    I have not tried to contact him, but www.danielsternlighting.com was updated in December 2010, so it appears the company is still active.

    Cheers,
    Brady
     

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