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308 4th and 5th gears difficult to engage, why?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by shenbec, Mar 23, 2004.

  1. shenbec

    shenbec Rookie

    Nov 21, 2003
    14
    Hi, I have a problem with my 308's transmission. It is difficult to engage 4th and 5th gears. It does not grind, it is just takes a lot of force and then kind of clunks into gear. I replaced the shift shaft bushings, motor mounts, dog bone bushings, and adjusted the linkage. All of this seems to have helped, but it still does not shift as smoothly into 4th and 5th as it does the rest of the gears. The problem happens with both up and down shifts while moving and also with the motor off sitting stationary. I would have thought that it would have been a linkage adjustment problem, not the syncros. Right now it is up on jack stands with the bottom pan off and I cannot see any problems. Does anyone have any thoughts as to what could be happening? Thanks for the assistance.

    Chris
     
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  3. TOM B

    TOM B Formula 3

    Jul 24, 2003
    1,038
    Orange County, NY
    Full Name:
    Thomas Buckley
    Chris,

    Does pumping the clutch pedal make shifting easier ? It could be that your brake / clutch fluid needs changing.

    Tom
     
  4. 308GTS

    308GTS Formula 3

    Dec 27, 2001
    2,220
    TN
    308s use cable driven clutches.
     
  5. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    20,491
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Without the engine running (or with the engine running, but the clutch disengaged -- i.e., gearbox input shaft not rotating) is it also more difficult to engage 4th/5th relative to the other pairs?
     
  6. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant Owner

    Dec 26, 2001
    13,688
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    I saw a problem recently in a 308 gearbox where it shifted but had some diffculties. In this case when the 2 gears that share the same syncro hub have a problem I would look at the syncro assy. In the one I looked at, the 3 coil springs inside the syncro hub applying the slippers to the ring were broken. What this caused is the sleeve to be misaligned as well as not applying the blocker ring correctly. $12 in parts and 2 days to fix it. I plan to replace all of mine while its out and I can bet there are others running around with this problem.
     
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  8. TOM B

    TOM B Formula 3

    Jul 24, 2003
    1,038
    Orange County, NY
    Full Name:
    Thomas Buckley
    I didn't know that. Thanks.

    Tom
     
  9. shenbec

    shenbec Rookie

    Nov 21, 2003
    14
    Tom, different clutch techniques seem to have little impact on what happens. Last year I did adjust my clutch cable and I think everything is OK there.

    91tr, the problem seems to be independent of having the engine running or not. The odd part is with the engine off you can select 4th gear. Pull it out of gear and then straight back into gear, it is still difficult to engage. I would have thought with nothing turning in the transmission, that once the gears are aligned they should be able to disengage and reengage with almost no effort.

    Newman, I believe I know which springs you are speaking of (from the parts book). Is there any way to see and tell the condition of these springs with everything still connected inside the transmission case, or does everything have to be disassembled to inspect these springs?

    Thanks again for everyone's help.
    Chris
     
  10. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant Owner

    Dec 26, 2001
    13,688
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    No way to see them without having them in your hand. One easy way to check the syncro condition is to drop the pan and check the clearance as outlined in the manual - looking for min or greater in the clearance department. I doubt both blocker rings are worn out. A clutch will affect all gears not just a couple and a dead ring is usually confined to 1 gear like 2nd or 3rd. Good luck. Its hard to diag long distance so its only guess work really.
     
  11. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    20,491
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Poor behavior with the input (and output) shaft stationary is a bad sign -- you've got to have something wrong in the mechancal linkage from the "L" levers ("Bilanciere") over to the "Corpo sincronizzatore" or, as Paul N. noted, something wrong in the mechanical bits between the "Corpo sincronizzatore" and the "Manicotto per sincronizzatore". Good luck...
     
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