Hi All, A quick question, is it standard for the AC (compressor clutch & fan) to be able to be switched on while the IGN is off? Same goes for the heater fan, both can be powered with IGN off! In my years of ownership I never noticed this before! Checked the wiring diagram and it appears to confirm this, but it does seem odd to me. Any advise would be appreciated. BB
No, those should not work with key "off". What print number OM are you referring to when you say: "Checked the wiring diagram and it appears to confirm this..."? For example, in the 248/82 OM on page 27, it clearly states that the AC and heater are controlled by the key.
On my 78 US the only things that work with the key off are the exterior lights including the head lights, emergency flasher and interior lights. Even the stop lights don't work. As far as I know the wiring is stock. The AC and heat won't turn on until the key is on. Barry
Hi All, I agree it shouldn't work with IGN off. In my OM 307/84 it shows the heater & ac powered from fuse #5 (fifth from left). That is how mine is wired (yellow and white wires) but also in my car that circuit is constant powered. So can we assume a PO has wired the top of the fuse panel incorrectly? It came with the Birdman fuse blocks already installed, so maybe they mixed it up then? Thx BB
Yes, your 307/84 OM also says on page 31 that the heater and AC should be controlled by the key. It might be related to your ignition switch having been previously replaced. The large black wire that brings +12V power to the tops of fuses #4 and #5 should come from terminal 75 of the ignition switch (which is the "accessory" terminal position -- the first "click" that can turn some things "on", but leave other things, like the ignition system, "off". It's usually used for being able to run the radio without having all the other stuff "on" that is typically "on" with the key in the "on" terminal 15 position -- the second "click"). Not all ignition switches have a terminal 75 so maybe they (sort of wrongly) spliced that black wire that should connected to terminal 75 to the always hot red wire on terminal 30 of the ignition switch. Anyway, I'd have a look at your ignition switch area to see if an obvious wire splicing has been done and/or if you have a terminal 75 on your ignition switch. If you don't have a terminal 75 on your ignition switch, it might be better to connect that black wire to the A (light blue) wire on terminal 15 of the ignition switch so it's only hot with the key "on" (but I don't like that either too much as it increases the current flowing in the 30-to-15 contacts inside the ignition switch -- using the correct ignition switch would be best).
Hi Steve. Thanks for that information. I think you might onto something there with the IGN switch. I couldn't see any splicing going on, all the wires appear OEM around the IGN switch and then they disappear into the loom bundle. But I do not have a 75 terminal on my starter. See diagram/photo below of the current setup. Do you think that is not the correct IGN switch for the QV? I had this diagram from when I was trying to diagnose my occasional non start issue (ultimately it was the starter solenoid), but could I have plugged something in wrong when I reassembled? Its not exactly easy access down there Thx BB Image Unavailable, Please Login
Don't really know, or you could have a failed ignition switch. A quick internet search seemed to indicate that the "R" terminal is for "Run" and should only be connected to terminal 30 when the key is in the "on" (run) position (which would seem the correct place for the black wire) --- but I didn't look into this too much. The rest looks OK: Red wire to terminal 30 (that's +12V from the battery) White wire to terminal 50 (goes to the starter solenoid) -- terminal 50 is connected to terminal 30 when the key is only in the start position Light Blue wire to terminal 15 -- terminal 15 is connected to terminal 30 when the key is in the "on" run position or start position If that R terminal is always connected to terminal 30 = that would explain your heater and AC having +12V power without the key. The "empty" 30 terminal will just be another always +12V spade, but the way the "15" label is placed maybe the light blue wire could be moved to the one you've labeled ???. This gizmo is a rotary switch so you might check what terminals get connected to terminal 30 in what order as you rotate the key (and what terminals are connected to terminal 30 in the "on" position and what terminals are not connected to terminal 30 when the key is removed). Is the "15" the only label in the plastic by the one you've labeled as "BLUE"?
Yeah, its sort of odd, the "15" is sort of between the terminals I labelled "blue" and "???" I could easily test if those two terminals are connected? I suppose it might be like the "30" above it? I'll check this out and see...
Hi All, So the IGN switch is operating correctly. While testing the wires I found the culprit. See image below. The red unplugged wire was plugged into the top of the fuse panel at #4 and the other end is connected to the power bus next to the relays. So it was providing constant power to fuses #4 and #5 (AC & heater). The wire and plug looks OEM, but I cant understand why it would be there? The wiring diagram doesn't show that wire that I can see? For now I've left it unplugged. Happy to take advise. Thx BB Image Unavailable, Please Login
Yes, there should only be the black wire connected to the top of fuse #5 or #4 (the fuse block connects those two upper terminals together). Sure looks like a factory red wire -- please confirm the insulation color is all red or something else and is not an "added" wire. Since you indicate that it comes from item 7 (the 4-way connector -- that's the white plastic thing below the relays) on your 307/84 OM schematic, the schematic shows that the three (factory) red wires from that location go to the tops of fuse #3, #7/6, and #16/17/18 (to run the radiator fans). Can see in the photo that you've got the ones at the tops of fuse #3 and #7/6 -- do you have something modified/different/non-factory at the top of fuses #16/17/18 that doesn't look like a stock red wire? Also, the length of those red wires might be a clue for which one is long enough to reach fuses #16/17/18 and should be going there.
As usual, you were on the mark Steve. Looks like the PO (probably when he did the fuse panel conversion) got the factory red wires tangled up, so it wouldn't reach fuses #16/17/18. Sadly their solution was to put a jumper wire (that blue one you spotted) from #6 to #16/17/18! And then they plugged the proper red lead into #4, causing the constant power to the AC & Heater. A little untangling of the birds nest behind the relay panel, and there was more than enough length for the red wire to reach #16/17/18 as Enzo intended . Thanks for your help on this one. BB Image Unavailable, Please Login
It always makes sense in the end. I initially thought that that added blue wire you had at the top of fuse #6 was just someone pirating always +12V for something else that was added. It's getting to the point (so many years have now passed) that maybe I should start every 308 electrical issue discussion with "please first describe all the weird, and unusual, wiring modifications that have been made to your car" .
