308 battery problems wasn’t the alternator. Now what? | FerrariChat

308 battery problems wasn’t the alternator. Now what?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Ferraritalian, Mar 28, 2019.

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  1. Ferraritalian

    Ferraritalian Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2019
    289
    Midwest
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Bought a 308, wouldn’t start when delivered in the cold, figured it was weather. Later found the battery would not hold a charge at all and saw receipt for recent new battery. Deducted it was the alternator. After horrifying issues looking at having someone take off alternator, buddy finally ripped it out of there. Was heartbroken today to be told the alternator was operating fine.

    So bummed. Now what?
     
  2. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    12,313
    South East
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    Jimmie
    Sorry if I misunderstood but a receipt does not rule out the problem being the battery
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,138
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #3 Steve Magnusson, Mar 28, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
    Agree that a recently replaced battery isn't "good" just because it was recently replaced (especially if it's been deep-cycled a lot because the car actually had a different problem) -- any Auto Parts store should be able to load test it.

    Better to "test" the alternator when it is in place in the car (i.e., measure the voltage at the battery at various engine RPMs and measure the current draw from the battery with the key "off"). For example, if you have a wiring problem in the car that's not supplying the excitation to the alternator, the alternator will test fine on the bench (because the excitation will be supplied by the tester). On the 308, the excitation is supplied via the alternator warning light IIRC (on later models, they got smarter, and supplied the excitation via a separate circuit so a burned out, or disconnected, alternator warning light wouldn't disable the alternator) so the first question (if both the battery and alternator test OK on the bench) would be: "Does your alternator warning light correctly illuminate with the key "on" and the engine not running (when the battery and alternator are in place)?".
     
    f355spider likes this.
  4. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2006
    15,540
    Cerritos, CA.
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    Mike
    Since you have the alternator out, might as well have it recondition/rebuild or at least put new voltage regulator with new carbon brushes.
     
  5. Ferraritalian

    Ferraritalian Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2019
    289
    Midwest
    Full Name:
    Steve

    The alternator warning light would be the light in the bottom right corner of the dash that is IDed in the manual as “generator and water pump warning light?”
     
  6. Ed Russell

    Ed Russell Rookie

    Nov 24, 2018
    35
    Arizona
    Full Name:
    Ed Russell
    Will the battery hold a charge overnight when it is disconnected from the car?
     
  7. Ferraritalian

    Ferraritalian Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2019
    289
    Midwest
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Haven’t tested battery overnight after being disconnected from car.

    I will go back to alternator tech and have him rebuild anyway, including voltage regulator, after everything it took to get it out.

    I remember warning lights on when messing with it initially, but I was too new to the car to know which they were.
     
  8. Ed Russell

    Ed Russell Rookie

    Nov 24, 2018
    35
    Arizona
    Full Name:
    Ed Russell
    If the battery does hold a charge overnight when disconnected you probably have a short somewhere or maybe a relay that is sticking. Best way I have found to track this down is to put a small light in series with the battery. If there is current flow the light will illuminate. Go to your fuse block and pull one fuse at a time until the light goes out. This will at least give you a starting point as to what circuit is causing the problem.
     
    tomberlin likes this.
  9. Ferraritalian

    Ferraritalian Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2019
    289
    Midwest
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    Steve
    Thanks Ed, and everyone.
     
  10. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Veteran

    Jan 15, 2007
    5,257
    Montana
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    Kim
    Purchased a battery earlier last year and damn thing wouldn’t hold a charge for more than two days. Replaced it with another and no problem again.

    You should get the red alternator light illuminated upon start up. Simply blip the throttle and it should go out. ( if charging correctly). :)
     
  11. Ferrari Tech

    Ferrari Tech Formula 3

    Mar 5, 2010
    1,126
    Georgia
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    Wade Williams
    It is also normal on 308s to have the Alt. light stay on until you give it some RPM. Just a blip of throttle will usually get the light out and the Alt. genning like it should.
     
    308 milano likes this.
  12. Ferraritalian

    Ferraritalian Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2019
    289
    Midwest
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    Steve
    And what if not charging correctly?
     
  13. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Veteran

    Jan 15, 2007
    5,257
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    Kim
    If not charging correctly the first thing I would look at it is if your alternator belt is too loose? After that I would look at every item the guys mentioned above.

    Steve Magusson has helped me out more times than I can count. :)
     
  14. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,138
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    Yes, that's the one.
     
  15. scowman

    scowman F1 Rookie

    Mar 25, 2014
    2,505
    Scottsdale AZ
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    Stu Boogie
    Not sure what exactly the symptom is. Won’t start or won’t crank? What year 308?

    Won’t start is not necessarily battery.
     
  16. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,386
    The Cold North
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    Tom
    Charge up the battery. Stick it back in the car. Key up, but do not start. Make sure battery light is illuminated. Start the car
    Blip the throttle until the light goes out. Using a multi meter, check the voltage at the battery. You should see 14.5 volts. Turn on lights, fans, a/c etc. The voyage at the battery should not drop below 13 volts if the alternator is in good shape.

    If all is well, start looking for a draw. Disconnect the negative battery terminal. Put in series a test light. If a strong draw is present, the test light will be very bright. Start pulling fuses and relays until it goes out. Now you have found your circuit the issue is on. Start isolating the issue from there.
     
    afterburner, waymar and 308 milano like this.
  17. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 7, 2012
    3,322
    Tallahassee, FL
    Step One should have been actually testing the battery.
     
    2NA likes this.
  18. Ferraritalian

    Ferraritalian Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2019
    289
    Midwest
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Steve, if you would give me an address I’d mail you a beer of your choice.

    It appears the bizarre idea that the alternator warning light was messing up the system was the answer. The bulb was not seating properly in the connector and the light was not coming on. After everything was put back together, we straightened this out and the car charging system was working.

    I drove my car today for the first time since I got it in January. 70 mph smoothly down the road on its new Pirellis, top off, big smile.

    Steve, I want to publically thank you for your helpful contribution.
     
    308 milano and f355spider like this.
  19. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,138
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Glad that you got it sorted out, and all is working well. I'll comment again here that when a warning light comes "on" at the wrong time that's something a human easily notices and immediately recognizes as a problem, but when a warning light stays "off", when it should be "on", that rarely gets noted (even though it also is a strong indication of a problem). Every Owner should understand from their OM what the various warning lights should be doing -- both going "on" or being "off", and watch them to make sure they are doing the right thing. Your early 308 doesn't have too many warning lights to worry about, but the dash on a US TR looks like a flashing Christmas tree during the starting process ;)
     

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