308 cam drive bearing replacement info | FerrariChat

308 cam drive bearing replacement info

Discussion in '308/328' started by avionics123, Apr 30, 2006.

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  1. avionics123

    avionics123 Rookie

    Apr 13, 2006
    3
    PA
    Full Name:
    Peter
    #1 avionics123, Apr 30, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I just finished the lower cam drive bearing job on my 1982 308GTSI. I had replaced both timing belts 2 years ago. Since then maybe I had 2000 miles on the car. I started to hear a bad bearing growl and tracked it down to the lower aft cam belt lower drive pulley bearing. I could have kicked myself for not replacing these bearings when I did the belts two years ago, but I guess I did not stumble over that advice anywhere on the newsgroups. In retrospect, I would never advise anyone to leave old lower drive bearings in place when they do the belts. And yes, it can be done with the engine in the car, and without pulling the side cover. I know there is another inner bearing that is not being replaced with this procedure, but I’m willing to take that chance based on the successful reports from others on these groups.

    I did the job yesterday, replaced the bearing and now the growl is gone and all seems OK. I know there has been much discussion on how to attack the problem; I wanted to put in my 2 cents on how I approached it.

    I also have the complete Sykes bearing extractor kit, Cam shaft locks, and the Pin-Nut socket. Anyone who would like to rent the set from me, drop me an email. I would also be glad to send anyone pictures of the process. [email protected]

    (see picture) Sykes tool kit, Pin nut socket, external cam shaft locks.

    One other note, some groups had suggested the balm tool as an alternative to the Sykes bearing extractor tool. I tried to use the Balm tool for removing the bearing. It did not work and I only ended up creating more work for myself. The Balm tool appears to me to be more of a seal extractor and not a bearing extractor. So unless there is more than one Balm bearing tool (and I purchsed the wrong one...), just go with the Sykes tool, it is the only one I could get to work.

    I did the job with the engine in the car, and used the Sykes tool to pull the bearing. I also used an external camshaft lock rather than pulling the cam covers. When I did the belts two years ago, I pulled both cam covers, locked the cams with the match-book under the cam cap method. This was quit a bit of work, and seemed to only result in me introducing an oil leak on the aft cam cover which I have yet to fix, and it added hours of disassembly and re-assembly to the job.

    At this point I only had the aft bearing fail, so that is all I replaced (did not feel like fighting the air conditioner compressor.) I plan to do the forward bearing later this year. Here is how I approached the Job.

    1) Jack car, Remove the right rear tire and skirt.
    2) Remove the one cooling line, air compressor belt tensioner assembly, and alternator and compressor belt.
    3) Remove the lower crank shaft pulley. Remove the aft com belt cover.
    4) Remove the timing plate on top of the flywheel (left top side of the engine). Bring the engine to PM1-4.
    5)
    6) Put a flat rod (hack saw blade, etc) across the top two cam shaft end pulleys. Put two marks on each pulley where the blade rests (this is for a sanity check when you re-assemble).
    7) (see picture)
    8) Install the external cam shaft lock in between the two cam pulleys.
    9) (see picture)
    10) Compress the cam belt tensioner and remove the cam belt. Remove the cam belt tensioner pulley (to be replaced later)
    11) Remove the cam drive pulley with the pin nut socket. Remove the lower cam drive pulley (a sears puller will work).
    12) Remove the circlip that holds the drive bearing.
    13) If the bearing is still in tack (mine had fallen apart and the cage was missing), drill out the cage. Use plenty of penetrating oil on and around the bearing. You can also use a dremmel tool with a small grinding bit to grind a low spot in the outer bearing race to get the balls out if need be.
    14) Insert the Sykes tool with the #2 end bits. Rotate the tool end to engage the inner and out bearing race. Slowly increase the pressure. If the bearing stops moving, remove the Sykes tool, apply penetrating oil, using a socket, and drive the bearing back to its original seating position. Rotate the ends on the Sykes tool to a fresh position and re-try the Sykes tool. Eventually, you will get the bearing out.
    15) (see picture)
    17) Clean up the bearing seating area. Clean up the cir-clip grove if need be.
    18) Apply some anti-seize grease to bearing mating area. Install the new bearing. A 1&1/8 deep socket is just smaller than the outer bearing diameter, and will allow you to drive the new bearing home.
    19) (See picture)
    20) Install the new circlip.
    21) Re-install the drive pulley using a new pin-nut.
    22) Replace the Cam belt tensioner pulley with a new one.
    23) Re-check your flywheel mark to make sure you are still at the PM1-4.
    24) Install the new timing belt. Take care to make sure there is no slack on the side of the belt that does not have the tensioner. All the slack should be on the tensioner side of the belt. Work the belt over the tensioner. Re-check your flywheel mark to make sure it has not moved. Use your flat rod across the top to cam pulleys to make sure you still line up with your marks. If you are satisfied your timing is correct move on. If confusion has set-in (or you are not comfortable you have the timing right), remove the cam covers and following the book procedure, re-line up your engine timing with the marks on the cam shafts.
    25) Remove the external cam shaft lock.
    26) Set you belt tension per the book. (Rotate the flywheel one revolution with the tensioner loose, and then tighten.
    27) Turn the engine though by hand (via the crankshaft nut), as a sanity check nothing is binding.
    28) At this point I put lower crank pulley on and cranked the engine with the starter (coil wires removed). If the engine cranks smoothly, put the coil wires back on. I went ahead and stated the engine at this point briefly for about 20 seconds. (With all belts off and cooling lines disconnected.)
    29) Remove the crank pulley. Reinstall all removed items

    Helpful part numbers (1982 2-valve 308GTSI / Modial book):
    Snap ring for lower drive bearing: 11059976
    Timing Belt: 107833
    Cam tensions pulley and bearing: 175260
    Cam drive roller bearing (the one that fails): 175260
    Pin nut for cam belt drive pulley: 104919

    The job as described above can be done in one Saturday. Happy Motoring…

    Peter [email protected]
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    Saabguy likes this.
  2. WaltP

    WaltP Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
    1,512
    Cape Canaveral/Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Walt P
    Very nice 1st post!
     
  3. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Feb 24, 2002
    5,294
    Ventura, California
    Full Name:
    Robert Garven
    Peter,

    where did you get he sykes tool kit?

    Rob
     
  4. mustardfj40

    mustardfj40 Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
    1,142
    Northen California
    Full Name:
    Ken
  5. FF8929

    FF8929 Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2008
    799
    Livonia, Michigan
    Full Name:
    Fred Flynn
    Nice post. I'm curious, why didn't you replace the seal as well?
     
  6. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,022
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    Robert,
    A few years back I bought one from RS-Online. Now in the US RS seems to map to Allied Electronics.

    Also, a general web search for Sykes came up with a couple of sites that listed the Sykes tool as NLA, but reccommended a 'Gedore' tool that looks just like the Sykes tool. Very confusing.

    Suggest you take a look at the home made tools in the preceding post's link.
     
  7. samba-lee

    samba-lee Formula Junior

    Aug 28, 2006
    677
    Manchester, UK
    Full Name:
    Lee Griffiths
  8. samba-lee

    samba-lee Formula Junior

    Aug 28, 2006
    677
    Manchester, UK
    Full Name:
    Lee Griffiths
    I've bought one of these as they look the same as the Sykes tools (which is around £90 here) and Draper have always made excellent quality tools. My socket set is around 25 years old now and still very little sign of wear and tear.

    DRAPER 43137 EXPERT SMALL INSERT BEARING PULLER

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DRAPER-43137-EXPERT-SMALL-INSERT-BEARING-PULLER_W0QQitemZ180372413913QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Hand_Tools_Equipment?hash=item29ff089dd9&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1683|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50


    Lee

    '77 GT4 - undergoing cam pulley bearings and seals job :)
     
  9. ramosel

    ramosel Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2004
    1,237
    Meadow Vista, CA
    Full Name:
    R Moseley
    Half the parts and tools are in my hands, the rest should be here this week. So, I'm just in my due diligence mode now... As I understand it there are two flavors here. One has the pulley, the outer seal then the outer bearing and the other has the pulley the outer bearing then the outer seal. I've already had my ringnuts off and yanked the pulleys (came off without much fuss thankfully!!). I have a large internal snap ring and then the bearing. So I assume the seal is behind the bearing. I'll find out once the blind bearing tool gets here via Royal mail.

    My question is: Does anyone have pictures, methods or advise on pulling the seals out? Can they BE pulled out the front? I spent the afternoon searching the archives and rereading previous threads but just couldn't come up with a good answer on the seals.

    Any info would be appreciated, thanks!
    Rick
     
  10. Doug

    Doug Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2003
    1,473
    Louisville KY
    Full Name:
    Doug
    Rick
    My car is a '77 and my seal was outside the bearing. I had to remove it to see the snap ring and the bearing. It was easy to remove.
     
  11. FF8929

    FF8929 Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2008
    799
    Livonia, Michigan
    Full Name:
    Fred Flynn

    My 83 QV has the seals inside. As I recall, the bore is a single diameter, so the seal could, probably, be removed from the outside. BUT, unless you're seeing a leak, I wouldn't try it. The bearing itself is sealed (that's cause of the whole problem) so "splash" oil is unlikely to get past the seal and the new, sealed, bearing.
     
  12. ramosel

    ramosel Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2004
    1,237
    Meadow Vista, CA
    Full Name:
    R Moseley
    Yep, thats my plan, but I have the seals in hand and if they need to be changed, I was hoping someone had some sage advise and/or pictures of the process for removing the seals from behind the bearings.

    Thanks,
    Rick
     
  13. Steve King

    Steve King F1 Rookie

    Feb 15, 2001
    4,367
    NY
    Peter a few questions here. What size drill did you use to drill out the bearing cage and to remove a few of the balls? Also when you removed the nut was the timing belt still on or was it removed? Great job and thanks for the info.
     
  14. Steve King

    Steve King F1 Rookie

    Feb 15, 2001
    4,367
    NY
    Lee do you know if they will ship this tool to the US. Thanks
     
  15. Doug

    Doug Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2003
    1,473
    Louisville KY
    Full Name:
    Doug
  16. Steve King

    Steve King F1 Rookie

    Feb 15, 2001
    4,367
    NY
    Another question here. Do you leave the timing belt on while you spin off the nut . Also for the folks who made the bearing tool what was the ball ID that you ground it down to. Are we talking 21MM ? It looks like I'll be doing this pretty soon base on seeing some oil from the front (rear of car) pulley. I also see there are some differences on the seal. I have a 77 so based on what I see the seal is the last to go on. Is the front bearing sealed or not sealed. Thanks
     

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