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308 carb rebuild complete - by Pierce Manifolds

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Mike328, Jan 22, 2004.

  1. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Last December I took off my carbs and sent them to Pierce Manifolds to get rebuilt. They clearly know what they're doing, and run a pretty professional shop. I worked with Mike; website it http://www.piercemanifolds.com/.

    So in general, the carbs are in much better shape. Total cost for all four carbs was $815. This was not a special deal for me, I get the feeling this is just what they charge. It's evident that they do tons and tons of these, and also that the 40 DCNFs on our 308s are pretty straightforward.

    Mike's stance is that the carbs are "better than new" by the time they get done with them, since one of the biggest things they do is to replace the "Exposed" throttle shaft bearing (which techinically requires periodic lubrication every so often, though nobody ever does it) with a sealed bearing (p/n 32650.003). Mine also needed throttle stop screw adjuster springs. Of course all this is in addition to a standard DCNF rebuild Kit.

    I had Mike fax me what all the kit entailed; here's an exhasutive list. For each carb:

    1. Insulator block
    2. Starter cover gasket
    3. Base gasket
    4. Top cover gasket
    5. Needle and seat, .175
    6. Accelerator pump diaphragm
    7. Fuel filter cover gasket
    8. Fuel union gasket
    9. Pump jet washers
    10. Idle jet o-rings
    11. Needle valve o-ring
    12. Split pin
    13. Pump spring
    14. Throttle return spring

    I was a bit disappointed (pissed off for a second) that the FLOATS themselves were't replaced (about $25 each from Ferrari UK). They're old and look like hell, though I don't think they're punctured. I kind of expected them to be replaced, since they're in the "Ferrari 308 Weber Rebuild Kits" up on eBay, but Mike convinved me "they do tons of these" and if the floats needed to have been replaced then they would have. OK, fine. Floats stay.

    The other thing they did was totally tear down each carb and put each one in an ultrasonic cleaner. They turned out nice. I've got some before/after pics.

    Let me know if you have any questions... Would also love to hear thoughts on the "need" to replace the floats.

    Pictures to come...
     
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  3. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Final Product - Picture #1
     
  4. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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  5. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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  6. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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  8. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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  9. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Before #1 of 2
     
  10. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Before #2 of 2... Yucky!
     
  11. Ferrari_tech

    Ferrari_tech Formula 3

    Jul 28, 2003
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    Mike,

    We use to own Weber Uk and supplied / rebuilt 1000's of carbs and very rarely was it necessary to replace the floats - so I would agree with your specialist with his decision to leave the original floats.


    MW
     
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  13. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

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    Mike
    They look great. I am sure Mike did a thorough job -- he's certainly very knowledgeable
    Philip
     
  14. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
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    I had Pierce do 3 - 36 DCL a couple of years ago. One carb was a 40 DCL and needed to be downsized to match the other two. I thought $800.00 was fabulous for 3 rebuilts ready to install and start.
     
  15. bill308

    bill308 Formula 3
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    Mike,

    Do you know if they removed all the lead plugs and cleaned out all the drilled passages before replacing the plugs?

    Do you know if they refurbished or reformed all the seats? This requires a special Weber tool that is no longer available.
     
  16. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Bill,

    That, I don't know. I broguht up the lead plugs to him before, asked if he "sealed" them and he said something that handled my question but I don't remember what it was. I think he said he did something to just really, really jam them in there. I do know he said the carbs were "completely" torn down--I don't know if that means the lead plugs, too. I've been kind of bugging him lately, he got kind of pissy with me when I questioned him about the floats, if somebody ELSE wants to call and ask what they do on a 40 DCNF regarding the plugs, that'd be nice :).

    They also put the carbs up on a concrete slab to measure their true flatness at the base and can make them even if necessary (mine apparently didn't need them, or they didn't record it--might have all been part of the "labor").

    Now, Mike himself doesn't do the rebuilt--one or two of his techs do. They apparently have a "system" of sorts.

    Malcom, thanks for the confirmation regarding float replacement.

    Also Bill, when you say refurbished/reformed all of the seats--what do you mean? The needle comes with a new seat, of course... How can I tell this?
     
  17. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Mike

    It is good to see that the job was done right. My opinion is:

    1. Old floats that don't leak get reused, all the time. You can't even see it.
    2. There is nothing on the list that Pierce gave you that you could not do yourself.

    I remember you were very concerned about doing this yourself. Seems money was not a real concern, so farming it out to good results is a good thing.

    Now, to the tuning part. Have fun.
     
  18. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Ya know, I agree. In retrospect, I could have done this myself. But, my priority was having the job done right, and I just didn't have the confidence--I didn't want to "learn" on these carbs. Now that I've gone through a few books, and have taken the tops off of the carbs, adjust the float heights, and identified every little plate and screw, I feel like I know them better.

    Yelcab, I'm about to be a student again this fall. Money *is* an issue. Getting this car right, the right was is also an issue... I just figured for this one I'd let Pierce do it.

    LOL, yeah, the tuning part promises to be fun. But I've found the prep to be very rewarding--I'm getting my syncrometer and all that good stuff. Of course, five sources quote five different ways on how to tune our webers, so pulling a "best practice" out of those promises to be fuuuuuun! :)

    --Mike
     
  19. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    I never tuned a weber before until I got the Ferrari. I did a lot of reading, and found a couple of sites that had step by step instructions. I found, for me, the Haynes Weber book had the easiest procedure to use and to understand. And, a synchrometer (flow) from Superformance (UK, $35 at the time) was a well used tool for me. No way I can do this by ear, my ears are not that good. I don't do this enough to have it second nature, so each time i do it, i have to read the chapter again, but it comes right back.

    BTW, I did not replace the bushings with the bearing part, but my carbs (and yours too) were not abused so i guess I lucked out.
     
  20. milstanselnino

    milstanselnino Formula Junior

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    Where can I find the website on carbs that you referred to?
     
  21. 4re gt4

    4re gt4 Formula 3

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    Actually, there is an advantage to replacing the floats. The new ones have concave sides, as opposed to the original's flat sides. This makes the float bowl hold more gas. I've heard that this can help flat spots during hard cornering and a few other probs.

    The prev owner had to replace one float on my car, so I have 1 concave and 3 flat ones. And, no, on my recent rebuild, I didn't replace the other 3. Cheap bastard that I am. However, I had the folks at Pierce check, and the ones they had in stock were all concave.
     
  22. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Would it not be cheaper if we take a hammer to a flat float?
     
  23. 4re gt4

    4re gt4 Formula 3

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    OK, now THAT was funny!
     
  24. bill308

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    Mike,

    What I mean by reforming the seat:

    There are Weber tools that fit into the carb body and will reform the various seats. These tools are used by introducing them tool into the carb body and lightly striking the tool while rotating it. This procedure restores the original contours of the metal so that the needle valve or jet and seat have the proper relationship. These tools are very hard to find but may save an otherwise ruined carb. Typically a carb is damaged by overtightening something. IMO this is one very good reason to go to one of the specialty shops to get your carbs rebuilt. Somewhere I have a book that shows an entire page of Weber tools but I can't seem to find it. The Haynes book references and shows some of these tools but not all on one page.
     
  25. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    Is it still possible to buy flat-sided floats? Who would have them?

    I have concave ones in my car.
     
  26. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    I think you can probably buy the flat-sided ones. My guess is, that's what's available from the Ferrari 308 weber rebuild kits up on eBay (from what I can tell). My guess is, that's what you would get if you got them from Ferrari UK.

    However, if you bought them as a "Weber Calibrated Part" from a weber dealer, then you might start getting into the concave floats...
     
  27. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Also, I'm comforted with the idea that if I ever wanted to change out the floats, it's a "carb on, carb top off" job, just take the tops to your workbench and do the replacement and adjustment.

    --Mike
     
  28. 4re gt4

    4re gt4 Formula 3

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    Peter: Want to trade?
     

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