308 Carburetor popping issue | Page 2 | FerrariChat

308 Carburetor popping issue

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Peter, Sep 2, 2019.

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  1. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    Dec 21, 2000
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    Not really. The popping has been going on for some time. I can't pinpoint an exact timeline as I haven't been driving the car on a regular basis (I know, I know, mea culpa...). I used to drive this car so much and within the last couple of years, only on a handful of occasions (personal, life-related issues taking priority. Not going there in this public forum).

    FWIW, my new caps and wires should be arriving today at any moment. The parts that were on my car now have been in service for many years, long enough that I don't remember when. The cap terminals don't look healthy, put it that way... Plug extenders are more fresh and had been replaced within the last couple of years as the previous set's little retainer springs (the spark plug terminal side) started to get weak and fall out on occasion!

    I have a Snap-On 5-gas analyzer. Measures all emissions outputs, plus has an AFR readout. Yes, when setting up flows, I had the bell-crank linkage disconnected. No cats on my car, nor are the air pumps hooked up - as pure as it gets. Measurements were taken at the tail pipe, not at the individual ports. I don't have adapters for those and I'm intending on getting something/making something up for those.

    I was expecting my ultrasonic cleaner to get rid of all of the crud build up. Like I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, I was using gun wash, which if left too long, is hard on die-cast zinc parts... The bath was cloudy and nearly black when I took the submerged carb out of it. Flipped it over on all of it's sides, so any residue would work it's way out. Blew all passageways out... I will admit though that I've never pulled the lead plugs in all of the years I've serviced them. What size lead shot is needed? I know that info is posted somewhere.

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  2. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    Should be arriving any moment today...
     
    f355spider likes this.
  3. afwrench

    afwrench Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2004
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    Mike
    90% of carb issues are ignition related. Mike
     
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  4. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2008
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    Peter please let us know if your caps and rotors fit correctly.
     
  5. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I think our cap electrodes are rebuildable??

    As for the sampling tubes they are a part of the tool kit, the front ones were/are fixed on USA cars, but that's where you will find the sampling exhaust risers.
    I had a set at one time.....maybe still do
     
  6. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    FWIW my car pops a good bit, sometimes, on deceleration.

    It's really the plug not lighting the moisture off, and as others have said, it comes from uncontrolled ignition well down the headers and muffler.
    You can blow them up... just ask me!

    So there's a line as to what's "allowed"...
     
  7. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Amen, de' carb, it jus' flow, brah…….
     
  8. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Damn, impressed with the carb cleaner...….!!!

    If a lead plug is not leaking, it is still good....

    They test at the tailpipe here now for emissions, so if it passes that, it's good.
     
  9. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    This guy...amazing.....thanks turbo-joe!

    And all of the old school guys helping out.
    Great thread!
     
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  10. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    2,774
    Very nice on the gas analyzer. Soon it'll be fixed and you'll forget you had the problem. My passage problem wasn't cured by carb soaking in Berryman Chem-tool Carb Cleaner and blowing out passages w compressed air. My carbs looked brilliantly clean. I had one cylinder that would not respond. I did a compression test, but felt the motor was wayyy to strong and smooth at rev's to be down a cylinder, but had to know since I was getting quite bugged.

    I cannot lie - I conferred with someone who's biz is Weber carb's

    http://www.performanceoriented.com/

    I spoke with Paul about popping from one cylinder, and the idle mixture screw being unresponsive without large jet size increase. I finally decided to ship him the carb. He thought initially, all-good. He too pushed air thru passages to confirm patency and was satisfied as was I. We scratched our heads, and finally Paul mentioned to pull out a few lead plugs. He called me back apologetic as no problems found. I was considering just buying another carb to be done with it! He mentioned pulling more lead plugs to further the hunt and call me back. He called to say he removed and cleaned 2 or 3 more passages and all was clean, so he persevered and continued to remove more plugs and he discovered under one which seemed to control an insignificant passage was heavily laden with soot and took a bit of effort to clean. He re-fitted new plugs and shipped me back the carb, and without further drama, I set the synch and cyl-by-cyl mixture in quick order achieving a sweetly tuned motor. I'm not saying this is your problem. Kind of a pain, and hope it isn't. But I am saying the gas sample of individual cylinders was the best way I would know of to find the problem.

    Hopefully in your case, you snap on new electrical bits, take your car for a great drive and forget the thread. How we love them so!!
     
  11. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    I know they’re part of the tool kit, but they weren’t in mine...
     
  12. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    Well, if it means taking them off again and drilling out the plugs, then I’d have no choice.
     
  13. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    So, I got my plug wires... I wasn’t expecting this (not stated on their website).

    I was under the impression that copper core wires throw out a lot of RF noise. Is this set going to give me problems?:

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  14. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    only for the radio, which is sacreligious to use in a carbed car
     
  15. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    What about electronic ignition though? I have the Pertronix triggers in the distributor, which are - to my understanding - like hall effect, magnetic switches. Would the wires mess up that?

    If this problem I have is related to ignition issues, I don't want to cause further issues...
     
  16. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    I don’t think so. I’m not great with electronics. But was does pertronix recommendation
     
  17. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    Not sure what ohm wires they recommend
     
  18. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    Pertronix doesn't recommend using solid/copper core wires with their ignition... :(

    I'll have to take a trip down to my local hot-rod shop and see if they have a universal set of their 7mm Flame-Thrower wires.
     
  19. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    I had brought this up in the other thread that's running here, about spark plug wires and how very rare it is to find 7mm suppressed/spiral core wire in RED. I guess I have no easier alternative other to use black wire (as that is what Pertronix makes).
     
  20. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    Good that u checked. Lol
     
  21. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    How were the caps and rotors btw
     
  22. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    Caps were old, but new ones were in the package with these wires. Rotors are new as well.
     
  23. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
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    Fingers crossed that electrics wins the battle. I have 2 MSD-6A units well hidden in the car. I needed this to help CA SMOG (It helped, but wasn't enough). I use resistor plugs with the stock spiral wound CAVIS wires and resistor plug extenders. Revs very smooth with these! The RF emission is crazy bad. I figure I can listen to the radio when the motor is off :rolleyes:
     
  24. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    I meant did the new caps and rotors fit properly. I just got some that have issued
     
  25. wrxmike

    wrxmike Moderator
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    #50 wrxmike, Sep 6, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
    Adding to the comments, unlikely to be fuel pressure related as this would affect all carbs and not manifest itself at idle when fuel demand is low.
    From past experience -
    Compression (and if its low on one bank compared to the other side , probably a cam belt has skipped one tooth ). Been there, done that.
    Float levels need to be correct
    Valve clearances need to be correct
    Ignition timing, & dwell
    Rotor cap in servicable condition.
    Spark plugs - I've found hotter plugs work best in my car ( NGK BP 6ES )
    Spark plug leads - easy to test with a meter or swap to see if problem moves
    Air leak at carby base or through throttle shaft bearings (one can rebuild the carbs with sealed bearings).
    Ultrasonic cleaning works great, I dissasemble the carb and use water & simple green for 10 minutes or so.

     

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