I was wondering if others who drive their 308s in cold climates are experiencing the same thing as I am. If the outside temperature is below about 35F or so, the temperature guage barely lifts off the peg at highway speeds. If idling in the cold garage- the car warms up fine and the fans kick in. With the temp so low, the idle never really drops to below 1200-1300. In the summer, the idle is about 900 with the temp guage reading almost to the midpoint while on the highway. I'm thinking my thermostat is stuck open, so she can never really warm up to operating temperatures. Any of you out there driving in the winter have this same problem? I can't understand why a fairly modern car, if operating correctly, would not warm up to the correct temperature in winter conditions. I know- with all the posts about 308s overheating, it's weird to ask about it not getting UP to temperature! Lastly- I assume that if she is never getting up to operating temps, than the warm-up system is feeding extra fuell and causing her to run rich. This is a euro 308 QV (1984). Thanks- jwise
Classic symptoms of an old & weak T/Stat. When they get old the spring that forces the thing to close gets weak & it stops doing its job. Its probably not stuck open, more of a case that it just opens much more easily than its supposed to and won't close as it should. I expect that if you warm the thing up in your garage to close to where the fans come on & then go for a run you would see the temperature actually drop back fairly quickly. Sounds like your fan switches are working OK & IIRC your fans should kick in at about 190 so iif that's what the gauge says when the fans come on then you know that the sender & gauge are pretty much OK as well. Suggest you change the stat & before you do suspend the old & the new into a pan of water & then stick that on the cooker - you should see that the old stat will open earlier as the water heats up. Once both the stats are open if you add cold water to the pan you should see that the new Stat closes much faster. Changing the T'Stat isn't difficult - if you get some thin plastic tubing you can syphon enough coolant out of the system so that it doesn't have to be a messy job. The stat is right above the cambelts so you don't really want to drop a load of coolant into that area anyway, I.
Can not comment about the pully stuff, but the rest sounds about normal per se. AT highway speeds i get a temp off the peg but before the next mark. At idle the temp does increase, fans kick in, etc like yours. Note, have a Euro here as well.
when i've driven my 308 in the cold ('78 model) at decent speeds the temp gauge goes to the tick mark to the left of the middle 195 degree tick mark. when i sit around in traffic on cold days it starts to make its way back to the middle mark. cold weather idling around town is around 1000 RPM.
During the winter at 25-30*F my temp only runs to the 1st notch on the gage. Stays there at idle or when driving 25-70mph. Will not go to 190 and fans never turn on. This is also the same in the summer except that on 90* days when idleing in traffic I will hit 190* and the fans turn on for a few minutes and then go off when the temp returns to normal.
Thanks for the responses. It seems some think it's normal, and some think the t-stat is weak. Probably best to just replace the thermostat since I have records of it being replaced last about 10 years ago.... After researching, I can't belive the prices of a Ferrari thermostat- about $180! Any other ideas? I'd rather not put in a cheap Autozone thermostat that needs modification to fit. I will also need the gasket and o-ring I assume? thanks again folks. jwise
Using Fchat SEARCH now. $180 for a therm??? Is it made of platinum? THERMOSTATS ( NOT CORRECT OEM) VW GOLF / RABBIT 1980 REF VW PN# 056121113A 180F VW PN#05612111371 160F
My '81 runs cool like that when driving on the highway in cold weather. And, it has since the day that I picked it up from the Ferrari Dealer back on January 5th., 2001 with fresh service and 14K miles. And I took the Highway home. So, I believe that it is normal.
John, I live about 250 miles north of san francisco on the coast and air temp ranges from 30 to 75 on a good day. The water temp takes a few miles to come up much at all and the oil takes quite a few miles to even get off the peg. With an unknown replacement history, I am inclined to go along with the "lazy" thermostat theory and replace it. My 77 has 26k on the clock and it is probably the original!! $180 is chump change compared to having your rings wear prematurely from fuel wash, not to mention oil dilution and wear from parts not being warmed up to proper operating temps. As a precaution, i am going to replace both the water temp and oil temp senders when i break into either system for maintenance. Since my cooler sprung a leak and i bypassed it, the oil temp still lags the water temp by a couple of miles and only gets up to 190 if i get on it. So, i have a few choices: 1) Fix the old cooler and have it tested to 175 psi. 2) Try to fix the Male threads on the cooler Philip Airey sent to me, 3) Or buy a new one from pegasus with AN-12 fittings. In either case, i am going to fit a good quality oil thermostat and make up braided stainless hoses to get it done. Having ranted about the chump change, i would talk to Dennis at All ferrari parts or Daniel at Recambi for a reliable, cost effective thermostat. Deep down, in the very core of my being, i truely believe that the 308 wants water temps of 190 and oil temps of 210 - to be truely fullfilled that is. with malice aforethought, chris
"Ditto" I thought I had T-stat problems on my 80, 308. for past 3 years always took long to warm up.. so I wanted to test it with the hot water test... I removed the housing and Suprise ! NO T-stat ! there is no Ferrari dealer in Maui, so I could not find the $180 part, So I had to go to NAPA and get part # 138 for about $9 fits perfectly and reuse the old gasket ( cant find one on this Island either) But now heating up quick and fine, no leaks, then did the water coolant tank jumper trick to get rid of the 2,700K reving when cold, AAHHHHHH life is good. I dont know if it fits a 328 also? bring yours in the store to compare.
An update: I purchased a thermostat, o-ring, and gasket from Superformance. The thermostat cost was about $20 US, plus shipping. The total with the gasket o-ring and shipping was about $40. The thermostat they sent is quite a bit different than the ferrari t-stat I pulled out. Firstly- the old one is a little more sturdy. It also has a plastic sealing ring, whereas the new one has a metal sealing ring. I'll post a few pictures soon of them side-by-side. After pulling out the old one, I ran a test. First, I checked the movement on both. The old was sticky, and made a few cracking noises. The new one was smooth and silent. Then, I measured them both cold. The WSM says they should be 32.5 mm when cold. The old was 31.5 mm, and the new was 33.2 mm. Then, I chucked then in a pan with cold water, stuck a thermometer in, and turned up the heat. At 75C (167F), they are to be 41 mm. The old was 40, and the new one was 42. At 96C (205F) they are to be 44.5 mm. The old was 43, the new was 45mm. This was about the time the wife walked up and sarcastically asks me "what's cooking for lunch?". I said "Some hot brass". She tends to get a little wound up when I use the kitchen for car repair- and rightfully so..... These numbers seemed o.k. for both, seeing as how my observed temps may not be completely accurate. I used a digital caliper for the measurements. The problem came during cool down. The new one closed fasted enough that you could easily see it move- less than a minute. The old one started to move, and then stopped. Later, it started to close again, and the stuck again. There lies the problem. Also- the new one did not have the bleed hole in the surface of the thermostat like the old one did. I just drilled a same diameter hole in the new one and made sure to orient it towards the top during install. There really is no trick to removing these old thermostats. First, I removed the air cleaner box and rubber intake hose (this is for a 308 QV). Then, just drain out maybe a gallon of coolant (that could easily be too much) and then remove the three nuts holding on the t-stat housing cover. I also had to remove the 1-1/2" coolant hose from housing cover to gain enough room to move the thermostat and cover around. I left the old t-stat in place while I scraped of the old paper gasket so the material didn't fall into the system. Then, just pop off the old thermostat- the o-ring should come out with it. Then, I replaced the old with the new (including the rubber o-ring), put a little waterpump RTV on both sides of the new paper gasket, install the gasket, and then install the three nuts. A very light torque is needed here- I just cinched them up after they made contact. You will see how lightly they are attached during removal. I let the sealant dry overnight, so filled and bled the next day. Now, the car warms up a bit faster and stays about 85C (185F) on the highway- exactly what I had hoped it would do. The outside temperature was the same if not a little cooler than the last time I had it on the highway. Total time- about 1.5 hours, not including the kitchen tests and overnight dry time. So, if your 308 never seems to get up to temperature in 30-45F weather on the highway- just replace the thermostat. HTH, jwise
Glad to hear you got it sorted. Same process I went through last year. The more I read the more anecdotal evidence there is that a lot of 3x8s don't run at the right temperatures - I reckon there are a lot of people who need to consider changing out the their T'stats. From what you've described (and my experience was basically the same), if you don't get water temperature up within about 3 miles and it doesn't stay stable at a sensible level on the highway, consider changing the Stat. I.
I agree- I think many of these cars are in need of a new thermostat! here are some pictures: Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
jwise, MANY thanks for details and pics. JUST ordered the three parts from the UK guys and look forward getting her working again. The pics are a HUGE help!!!
jwise, Many thanks as with your excellent instructions and pics i installed the thermostat yesterday. After 24 hours to let the sealant dry i refilled, burped... she works great! Thanks again!
