308 cooling problems solved??

There are 2 problems with that theory. The original carb 2V was 240 hp in the US and 255 in Europe, the US QV is only 235. The second is that sitting in traffic the engine is only making enough hp to stay running, which is about the same for any version of the engine.

The problem is actually simpler than any of that. Thinking back to my youth I recall it was very very common to see cars or all makes pulled of the road overheated during traffic jams. Those cars were almost always equiped with AC. In the 70s both AC and standing traffic became much more common and the auto makers just hadn't dealt with it, by the 80s most had. Ferrari fixed the problem on the 328, a bit late but they are a small automaker and redesigning the nose of the car to fit a bigger radiator is a huge expense.

Either way, the solution is the same, add a moddern aluminum radiator with a better fan and the problem will be gone. That is what I did to my QV and it runs exactly at temp in any weather....and my engine is supercharged and making well over 500 hp.

 

Adding an oil cooler fan also helps.

 

I guess I have a different opinion here. This car was designed in mind to accomidate all normal conditions and with a sufficant cooling system to account for a mid engine car. I experience has always been with fairly large block engines . 5 and 6 liter chev Corvette and 4 and 5 liter Jag 6 and 12 cyl motors. The 3 liter 308 engine is small in comparison as well as HP compared to the big iron motors. If you look at a 5.7 liter Corvette motor's cooling system you will see it has a 19 qt. capacity. So if you look at the 308's , guess what it has a 19 qt capacity with half the cu. in. size. I know there have been a few 308's on the board that have had temp issues but I believe there is a fundamental problem going on. I live in the north east and although we do not get 100* days all the time we still get strings of 90*+ weather. I consider my 308 to be normal where during normal operation at 50-60-70 mph my water temp and my oil temp run at the 1st notch somewhere around 170*water and 175*oil. So during city traffic in the 30-40mph range or stop and go traffic with the AC on it will creep up to 195* and when the 2nd fan kicks on you can watch the temp gage start going back to the 170* range. So the only time that I had a problem was when my waterpump locked up and I had to nurse it back home. So it would be interesting to see how many owners have a serious problem. Also it just may be that for these cars the solution is alum. rads with highspeed multi blade fans. My 2C and experience. Enjoy the ride

 

There are comments here about AC being on and overheating in traffic. On my 328, the condenser exhausts to the wheel well so it has little to do with the engine wanting to overheat when stuck in traffic. I'm assuming the location of the condenser in a 308 is where it is on a 328.

On summer days when I back my 328 into my basement so I can get it on my lift (takes a few minutes), there is a substantial temperature rise during this process regardless whether the AC is on or off. As soon as the fans come on, the temperature begins dropping - as it should if everything is performing as it should.

There is significant volume in the piping of a mid engined vehicle compared to a front engined vehicle. So 19 quarts in a front engined car has more radiator and block area than a 19 quart mid engined car. Hence there is more cooling available.

 

The 308 condensor is directly in front of the radiator. They nearly touch each other.

 

Hi Steve,

Just to give the counterpoint (sort of) here, I'm one of those "few 308's on the board that have had temp issues". I live in New York, too, and I can tell you I doubt very much there is a "fundamental problem going on" in my case. I say this because, as you've seen in the other threads, I've checked everything, from timing, to waterpump, to thermostat, to radiator cleaning, installing new fans, foam etc.... NOTHING has solved the overheating problem so far, so the aluminum radiator is going in next week. I think the answer is simply that these are hand-built cars. On some, it just works. The cooling system is tight and works well. On others, it just didn't come together well.

We'll see if the aluminum radiator solves my problem (it better). If not, I'm completely, utterly at a loss.

J.

 

Maybe an obvious question but what makes you think the car is overheating? If you are going by what the temp gauge says then these are prone to inaccuracy. You need to get someone to point one of those infra-red thermometers at various bits of the cooling system to get an accurate measurement.

I've read of a couple of instances recently of people finding their gauges being out by 20-30 degrees.

I.

 

I've never heard of a 328 having a cooling problem, the issues were solved on the model. It has a very different radiator/fan/AC set-up than the 308.

Your point about extra volume and there for surface area is valid, but more than offset by the reduced air flow in the engine bay and resulting increased engine temp.

 

Iain, you're certainly not the first to ask... The car is rather visibly overheating, spitting out coolant, engine bay extremely (far more than usual) hot, etc... And I do believe my mechanic checked the gauge accuracy rather early on in our pursuit of this annoying gremlin. I have no doubt a faulty gauge is a (or "the") culprit in some cases, just not likely in mine.

Cheers,
J.

 

The word on the street is that the stock radiator is adequate if it's in like new condition. Radiators, like all heat exchanges, corrode. When that happens the heat transfer rate drops and in the case of a 308, it drops below an acceptable level. The standard “cleaning” or boiling out” doesn’t seem to solve the problem because the design is just to close to the limits. Many have reported that having a new core installed does solve the problem. If I recall, there is a honda core that fits perfectly and has additional cooling capacity. An aluminum radiator solves the problem too.

 

Spitting out coolant could just be the expansion tank cap. What happens is the cap gets weak and so it won't hold the pressure. You drive along losing coolant & then your car starts overheating because of a lack of coolant.

WHat you maybe think is happening is the car is overheating causing coolant to be pushed out past the cap whereas actually its the weak cap that's allowing the coolant to escape which then causes the thing to overheat because of a lack of coolant.

If you havn't changed it then I'd really recommend doing so before you spend big bucks on a radiator. I have had my 328 for 6 or 7 years & its on its 3rd cap since I've owned it - the Ferrari caps just don't last.

I believe there may be a Napa alternative in the States - just make sure you get the 1.1 bar cap & not the old 0.9 bar

rgds

Iain

 

In California and anywhere else in the country where 100 and up temps are the norm in summer Ferrari told us that 210-220 in an 84/85 308 was normal and that if the car was not boiling over it was OK.

That was in response to the fact that they knew the cars were under cooled and they were unable to do anything about it.

 

Well, in that case you would get the doubly detrimental effect of preheated air at lower volume reaching the radiator - just like most other cars. The preheated air is probably no higher than 130 F, the saturation temperature of R12 at 181 psi. But on a hot day sitting in traffic, the ambient temperature could easily be 110 F. Still though, you're losing cooling by it running.

I have a car that would want to overheat when climbing hills in top gear and relatively low rpm. On the track at high rpm, all was fine. The problem on that car was the water pump not puting out sufficient flow at low rpm. I suspect the clearance between the impeller and the housing had become larger due to corrosion though I never measured it. A change of the water pump immediately fixed the problem. Prior to that, no amount of water wetter or bleeding touched the problem. Pump belt was not slipping either.

 

Thanks. Cap was indeed changed to a new 1.1 bar. The old one was bad. Sadly it wasn't so simple of a fix in this case...

 

I wonder of the there is some truth to the whole "luck of the draw" / hand-built-car thing to a degree. I had a Pantera which were notorious for overheating, but mine – with hot cams headers and a massive Holley – always ran at norm temps no matter what.

I also have a Lotus Europa that won't overheat no matter what kind of insane, non-stop, stop-and-go traffic it has to endure. Granted, it has a small 4-cylinder motor, but it also has a tiny, offset radiator with one fan.

My 308's overheating saga was recorded in great detail here as you may know, but now all is solved, so there is hope...