308 Early Speedo Drive Sensor Repair | FerrariChat

308 Early Speedo Drive Sensor Repair

Discussion in '308/328' started by alhbln, Jul 28, 2013.

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  1. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    #1 alhbln, Jul 28, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I had a dead speedo drive sensor as used in 308 GT4s and early 308 GTB/GTS, and since they are a bit costly to replace (Superformance offers them for £145/$220) i thought i have a look how complex a repair is. Good news, it is quite simple and all the components are still available.

    On my sensor, a bit of oil found it's way through the seal and dissolved capacitor C2, the other components were still good. To be on the safe side i replaced all transistors/caps and the zener diode. If you don't have tools to test the sensor, simply replace all parts except the coil pickup and the resistors (these usually don't break), part cost is about $2-$3:

    C1: 0.47uF 100V film capacitor, 7.5mm raster
    C2: 1.5nF 160V film capacitor, 9.5-10mm raster
    T1 & T2: BC327-16 or BC327-25
    D1: 1N4743A Zener Diode, 13V

    The wires and sleeve were quite bit brittle due to the heat in the engine compartment, drilled them out and replaced them against new wires/sleeve/AMP connectors then sealed the opening with black epoxy.

    See below for component and circuit diagram, as well as a scope shot of the repaired sensors output signal. About two hours of work and well worth it.

    Good luck,
    Adrian
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  2. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    #2 alhbln, Jul 28, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    106324 and 124146 (just adding some corresponding F part numbers for searching -- please correct, or add more, if you, meaning anyone, know of more that should be added for this subject).

    Adrian -- great! -- please add this information into the 308 Cross-Reference Thread (with the F PNs please).

    Mods -- please add link to this thread into the "Interesting 3x8 Technical/DIY Threads" thread -- TIA.
     
  4. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    Really fabulous. And actually superformance cannot get these at the moment and neither can eurospares. I was told by Claudio they are just not available right now.

    Adrian, how did you find out which diode was not working? Did it just look fried?

    Huge thanks for doing this!!!
     
  5. vaccarella

    vaccarella Formula 3

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    Cool! I love simple electronic fixes. Thanks for posting; although I hope I don't have to do it I'm happy you've found out how. This is the sort of gem information you never get in a $$$ Bluemel book :)
     
  6. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2004
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    Adrian - nice work and I'm happy your problem is resolved. ... BUT the circuit you posted is not definitive as there are several differences between your circuit and earlier work, much done by RJay in late 2010. I will go over my growing collection of circuit information and hopefully resolve them. Unfortunately I only have a spare speedometer, never finding a spare impulse generator to work with. But there have been many pcb photos of impulse generators to work from. I expect this may take several weeks as my eyesight comes and goes.

    Incidentally, my information is that the 'early/later' Veglia speedometer circuits change date was Sept 1981.
     
  7. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    106324: First sensor version, conical body. Green (VCC) and red/black (GND/Signal) wires.

    124146: Second version, replacement of 106324. Brown (VCC) and yellow (GND/Signal) wires. (Note: The wiring in the connector of 124146 seems to be often swapped, while installing check that the sensors brown wire goes to the cars green wire, and the yellow wire goes to the cars red/black wire).

    From what i know 106324 and the successor 124146 have been deployed starting from the early 308 GT4 up to 308 GTB/GTS as well as early (81-82? US only?) 308 GTBi and GTSi's. The 308 QV uses a different sensor type (part number 116987), which is not interchangeable.

    Will do!

    The transistors and the zener diode were ok but capacitor C2 was gone, it literally fell apart so was easy to spot.
     
  8. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    Paul, i searched for 'RJay' and found this thread, is that the one you meant?
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/technical-q/101159-308-speedo-odo-sender-system-fix-3.html

    The circuit board shown there looks identical to the one in i found in my sensor. I just found another PCB photo posted by Brian here, also looks identical: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/137886082-post17.html

    RJays circuit diagram lists a slightly different value for R2 (120Ω compared to 110Ω) but that is nearly within the tolerance of the resistor values so can be ignored. It looks like RJay mixed up the emitter and collector terminals in his circuit diagram though.

    Interesting, that is probably the different PCB layout used in the later type 124146. The circuit is similar but the components had a different orientation on the PCB due to the now horizontally mounted sensor.
     
  9. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    That's a bad ass scope screen!

    YOU , Sir, are awesome!!!
     
  10. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

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    #10 Paul_308, Sep 7, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I promised to post an understandable diagram of the Impulse Generator. The use of an identical transistor to bias the switcher transistor provides constant bias characteristics through the full temperature range. One clever designer.
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  11. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

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    Adrian,
    Thanks for this post! I have assembled the components I need to do the repair, but before I go breaking anything, I was wondering how you disassembled the top of your sender. Thanks and standing by (while soldering iron is getting hot...)
     
  12. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    #12 alhbln, Oct 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Jon,

    i am using a Wiha Picofinish 268 10P where the tip has been filed down to a sharp end. It's similar to a screwdriver with a bent and filed down tip, this allows you to get below the crimped edge for carefully levering it upwards. Take your time and go around the edge several times, each time lifting the edge just a bit so it won't break off.

    good luck,
    Adrian
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  13. johnhunt

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    #13 johnhunt, May 13, 2014
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  14. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    That looks similar to mine, oil had entered the inside of the sensor and dissolved the capacitor. Looks like an easy repair, good luck!
     
  15. johnhunt

    johnhunt Formula Junior

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    Is there a seal to replace to stop the oil penetration?
     
  16. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran

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    Perhaps a bead of silicon sealant along the crimp?


    When all else fails read the damn manual. - wife
     
  17. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    Good question, i did not try to disassemble the rotor/body assembly as it looked like the rotor/axle was riveted into place. My guess is that the seal in question is at the gearbox side.

    Rob, the oil enters from the gearbox side, i think the o-ring seal at the connector side is fine.
     
  18. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    BTW, you could protect the repaired board by applying silicone based conformal coating to the component (top) side. This will create a thin transparent layer which protects the components against humidity and oil, if one of the seals should fail. Available as spray or paint (spray is a bit easier to use, apply one thin layer, let it dry and apply a second one).

    Buy Conformal Coatings RS transparent 200mL Aerosol Conformal Coating For PCBs, Silicone Resin, -70 to +200°C RS ERDCA200D online from RS for next day delivery.
    Amazon.com: MG Chemicals Silicone Conformal Coating : 422: Everything Else
     
  19. L Moore

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    Can I connect the sensor to a voltmeter to see if it is indeed sending a signal down the wire? Surely if I turn it with a cordless drill I should see some current ?

    If it is dead I know the fault is inside. If not the fault is somewhere else.
     
  20. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran

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    Brown or green (depending on version) to +12 volt source like your battery. The other lead to ground and your voltmeter I would think. Then you would set your meter to a scale of 10v DC and the needle should jump with each rotation.


    When all else fails read the damn manual. - wife
     
  21. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    Yes you can, but you need a resistor (any value between 470 and 680 ohm should do) for this test. Wire the Green wire to +12V (a 9V Battery should also work nicely), and the red wire via the 470 ohm resistor to ground (Red--[Resistor]--Ground).

    Measure the voltage between the Green and Red terminal of the sensor. When you turn the axle, the voltage should alternate between less than one volt and several volts, if the sensor is ok.
     
  22. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran

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    Thank you for the correction. Otherwise no reading on the ground/signal terminal. Adrian you are better then autocorrect on my phone.



    When all else fails read the damn manual. - wife
     
  23. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    It's a pulse signal as shown in the scope above, I guess it would show on a voltmeter, but not continuously??
     
  24. alhbln

    alhbln Formula 3
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    Correct. As long as you see a change in voltage while turning the axle your sensor should be good. With a 12V source and a 560 ohm resistor, my Agilent RMS multimeter shows 4.5V without turning the axle, and between 4.5-10V when turning the sensor axle by hand.

    Values are a bit different if you go through the filter circuit in the Speedo (as shown in the scope shot), but that extra work is not required for just checking if the sensor is still working.
     
  25. johnhunt

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    Okay I am doing my best to find these components online. Wow... okay there has been no shortage of electrics guys and there need to variety when it comes to defining and making these things.

    Here is the list;
    C1: 0.47uF 100V film capacitor, 7.5mm raster
    C2: 1.5nF 160V film capacitor, 9.5-10mm raster
    T1 & T2: BC327-16 or BC327-25
    D1: 1N4743A Zener Diode, 13V

    I have learned that uF pF and nF are all the same you just move the decimal point several ways left or right.
    Raster doesn't seem to be defined as anything and I can find zero references to it
    Voltage comes in AC and DC and I presume these specs are DC. (the AC ratings on the same piece see far lower then the DC rating)
    I presume the 7.5 or 10mm is the lead width separation


    So are these the right components?
    I chose this one because it was blue... B32520C1474J189 EPCOS | Mouser

    This one because of its tight tolerances... MMK10152J250A01L4BULK Kemet | Mouser

    And the last two because I once visited Fairchild AFB...
    BC32725BU Fairchild Semiconductor | Mouser

    1N4743A Fairchild Semiconductor | Mouser


    Thank you so much for this last indulgence. I did find a wise old guy that is willing to solder on these bits.

    Thanks,
    John
     

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