I guess that is what has always drawn me in. I have never been as satisfied as when ive been able to get something running that was previously so many boxes of parts. I dont know how far I'll go with it. I still have the body to work on, so this just magnified the amount of work I have on my plate. But with even a few hours here and there I should make good progress. The motor ran great and the gearbox shifted like butter, so I really dont have to tear into it real deep if I choose not to. I just couldnt stand to look at it like this anymore.
Oh man, why didn't anybody tell me that trick?? I kept on removing things and that damn "s" pipe still would not come out. ARGHHH!! Thanks Paul, i learned something today.
Dont feel bad Chris. One owner I know of sawed the muffler off a 308 with a sawzall because he couldnt figure out how it came out. I dont claim any superior knowledge, I fought with my first one for a while trying to get it out. I finally had my wife grab it at the rear while I watched it up front to see what was holding it. And I thought, no, dont tell me I have to remove the axle to get the muffler out? Using a jack to lift the suspension was just a hunch. Thats what really facinates me about these cars, how they drew it out on paper, and engineered everything to fit into such tight spaces, and accomplished it all without too many compromises. In fact if there is any real compromise I see, its not having enough space over the carburetors. So hang in there Chris. As Big Red pointed out, that first drive will make you forget all the expense but your time, and you will find a joy few others in life have even known. And those Webers are going to put a smile on your face you wont be able to wipe off for a year. Make sure if you run a stock airbox to rip the insulation out. It really makes a hell of a difference in performance, and helps to funnel all that noise into the passenger window. Youll want to make sure your window works well, so you can open and close it as needed for your listening pleasure. I still get a chuckle when I recall my young daughters first few rides in the car. Each and every time I accelerated hard she busted out laughing. I kept asking her what was so funny, and she couldnt explain it. Just that the car acted like it shouted with a loud voice as it took off and somehow made her laugh. My older step daughter was scared of it at first. She said it sounded "angry". I wish my Mom was still around. She always laughed when cars accelerated hard too.
Bath mat is classic. Can see it now: "honey look, i got it out!" "That's nice dear but you ruined my bath mat..now wash your hands and take off that greasy shirt before you eat dinner"
You guys are funny. You might be surprised to know that lil rug was handed out to the garage, with no one even asking, by.....my wife! She knows we dona wanna be bangin up da lil bambina.
The shroud wasn't installed on fiberglass cars. Look closely and you'll see there are no holes in your valance to mount one. The transitional shroud you're describing started with the late 1976 steel GTBs.
Hmm, Wonder if the carb'd cars have a slightly different engine compartment. I've pulled & installed 308 engines with the header installed, both QV & 2Vi engines. Had to pull the bell housing, & intake plenum, then lift from the rear.
Sorry Chris, haven't had to pull a US muffler before. The Euro cars don't have that long pipe that runs under the half shaft, they have a joint just behind the half-shaft so the muffler comes out real easy. BTW, you didn't say how long the 2nd day it took to pull the engine .
Probably about an hour, maybe a bit more. I had the clutch housing off, but trying to lift it by rotating forward it just kept hanging up everywhere. First I removed the left rear motor mount, then the right, there just didnt seem anyway to get it to clear. The transmission input shaft and housing studs were catching the chassis on the left, the left side cam cover was catching the body under the rear glass, just every which way it got tight. Then we tried rotating it rearward. Now it cleared everything until the header ran into the body under the rear glass. We kept on rotating it until the differential was just about on the frame, but the header wouldn't clear, it was still several inches back under the glass. With the access to the header nuts up in plain sight, it took me less than 10 minutes to remove all the nuts and drop the header. The engine was out and on the floor about 5 minutes later. Once everything is ready, I doubt it would take more than 15 minutes to lift it out. Going in will obviously be more time consuming. I wont screw around with it going back in. The front header will be sitting on the frame, the motor and gearbox will be tilted to the rear, no clutch housing, no carbs, etc., etc.. The alternator was not in the way at all by the way. Niether would the starter be, but that L bracket that holds it to the engine was missing, and once the clutch housing was off, the starter more or less fell out. The rear motor mounts arent in the way going out that way either, so they will be on going back in. Interesting about the euro muffler. Seems in many ways the euro cars are more serviceable. Like the glass cars with the quick disconnect deck lid hinges. Maybe Ferrari figured us lazy Americans wernt ever going to service the cars anyway, they didnt feel they needed to make it easier to service?
This tread got me thinking about what we did to pull Steve's engine out. If I remember correctly, we drained the anti-freeze, removed the muffler, rear header, half shafts, top engine mount including the bracket on the rear fire wall, water expansion tank, carbs, crank damper, and moved the AC off to the side. And of course, all wires, thottle cable, and clutch cable. We cut the water hoses since we were going to replace them anyway. After strapping the engine to the hoist, we then removed the rear engine mounts from the engine to let the engine drift backwards to facilitate removing the front header. Tilted the front of the engine up as much as possible as we lifted the engine out of the bay, leveled the engine to clear the back of the car and move the engine crane backwards. No need to remove the starter, alternator, or the bell housing. I think that was it. I believe Steve and I did the entire job in under 7 hours. Sure wish I knew all this before I pulled my first engine. Artvonne, does this jive with your experience?
Pretty much. I dont think you need to remove the rear mounts though. But I must say removing the clutch housing does give it more clearance. Once that header was off it came right up out of there and didnt catch on anything.
I spent a few hours tonight on it, got the carbs, manifolds and heads off. Tomorrow I'll try to get the clutch and flywheel off, seperate the gearbox and get the motor up on the engine stand. The manifolds and heads came right off with some gentle persuasion, no corrosion in the stud holes anywhere. The tricks going to be cleaning it up without taking it fully apart. If I would have been bright enough to start a few weeks sooner, I could have pressure washed it out in the driveway and not had such a mess. Oh well. The cylinders look good, no ridge anywhere to speak of, so for now I wont plan on any further disassembly of the block until I see the crankshaft and bearings. If the bearings look good, I'll plastigage them to check oil clearance. If it all looks serviceable I will probably just leave well enough alone and focus on cleaning it up and checking out the heads. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Well, its seperated. And I have to say that in a lifetime of mechanics, this one ranks up in the top 5 most filthiest engines ive ever taken apart. Oil leaks are bad enough sometimes. But the blown header blowing header insulation material onto the back of the engine and gearbox, and oil and grease mixing and baking onto it really caked it on. And a few mixed feelings here. On the one hand I could have pressure washed the whole works before taking it apart, but that was not without its own risks of getting dirt or water into the engine or somewhere I wouldnt want it. On the other, with it apart, cleaning it will be equally difficult without even further disassembly. I may have to bolt the intermediate and clutch housings back onto the gearbox so I can get it clean. While the cylinders have no noticeable ridge, there are no visable hone marks either. Guess she must have a million miles on her eh? The inside the motor is actually prtty clean, but I do see a film of sludge on the upper surfaces of the oil baffle. After I get the major mess cleaned up in the garage and get reorganised I will focus on the engine internals and determine where to go from here. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Between Pizzaman and you, I"m getting all excited about doing mine which I've been planning to do 1 year from now. I've even had some fleeting thoughts of...."What a great way to spend this winter..." I just need a couple more feet in my garage to maneuver around!!! That IS one dirty motor! Keep the pictures coming! JIM
Ha-Ha, I got it. Yes its one dirty engine but on the bright side it'll look like a "million bucks" when its done.
Paul, Mine looked just like that. I used the old pressure washer. Hey what can i say, i'm lazy. What a mess i had on the driveway.
I attempted to remove the oil lines from the cooler last night. Whoever put them on put blue thread locker on the threads. WTF!!! I had a heck of a time getting them off and can only pray I didnt damage the cooler in the process. Just an FYI, the threads dont seal anything, the chamfers of the line to cooler interface make the seal, the nut only supplies the pressure to hold them together via torque. Just another heads up to make darn sure the people you have work on your car know what the heck thier doing. Havnt dont a whole lot with it, I had to reorganize the garage to make some room. I did bolt all the housings back on the gearbox and started cleaning it with solvent. Hey, there IS a transmission under all that gunk.
It will NEVER look half as nice as yours Paul, yours is the gold standard everyone will strive for and few (if any) will ever reach.
Mine looked like that when I pulled it for the first time. I took it over the local car wash and let them have the mess
Thanks, all I used was good old fashion elbow grease and some plating, nothing more. Actually I used aluminum rim cleaner from work that smells like ammonia, some sort of acid and it made all the bright aluminum look great without having to paint. Keep the pics coming.
I had to get the mess under control, just cant stand working in dirt and grease. Plus its gotten pretty cold and been snowing, so having the skiddy in the garage could be a big plus if we get dumped on. I rearranged the garage, cleaned up everything, tried to organsize as much as possible and get stuff I wont need for a while completely out of the garage all together. As I noted earlier, the hone marks in the cylinders are gone. While there isnt really a noticeable ridge at the top of the ring sweep, the cylinders are micing out about .0025" of wear. Im referencing 3.189" bore as nominal and im getting pretty consistent readings around the engine of about 3.1915". I havnt looked at the crank yet, but I think I need to sit down and look real hard at the situation. By the "book" it only got .0005" of wear left before its maxed out. Be kind of stupid to put it back together like that, unless we had a time factor of life expectancy that would put it out a ways. The car reads 44K miles. Seems like a bit more wear than one would think appropriate for the miles. But not knowing the history, seeing it had black oil, maybe it was just run hard the last years before I got it. Dave Helms? Steve Magnuson? Care to comment? Steve, I know you had the heads off at 100K miles on your old 308, do you recall how much wear it had? Surprisingly the car didnt use much oil, and never smoked, even for showing this level of wear. The gearbox is cleaning up and actually starting to look like its supposed too. I still have to disassemble the heads and clean them up, as well the block. If I have to tear the block down it will definetly make it lots easier to clean it up. Sorry the pics are getting cleaner, no more "dirty" ones. Well, not AS dirty Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
