hello everyone, i trust you have all had a better day than i ? i drained the engine oil today and found the attached in the oil ... a mutilated M6 nut and at least five fragments of what looks like bearing steel, which seems polished only on the "outside" faces. about four years ago, i rebuilt totally the cylinder heads ... therefore my first thoughts were that a camshaft cap nut had come loose and eventually (after a batterring) found it's way into the sump. i removed both cam covers today and found everything sound and intact. the next job is to remove the sump plate to discover what else lies within. from memory, i am unable to see all of the crank details from below ... can anyone confirm this ? the motor ran perfectly well (and quiet), right up to turning it off to drain the oil. anybody any ideas/suggestions ? kind regards, david Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
bummer dude . .. any chance someone played a joke and dropped that in the oil fill hole? . .. be a nice explanation . .. can't think of anything that wouldn't be making at least some noise with that much metal missing . .. looks like a piece of the small timing gear bearing that's in the block at the front. thanks for sharing . .. really curious what it is . . . like the broken timing belt thread again .
that nut was sitting in the head and got into a location where the bucket bottomed out on it when the valve opened . .. probably the exhaust side . .. look for a witness mark on the shims before pulling the bottom of the motor down.
It must be really strong though. Not a single scratch on it! Hope you find the cause. I've had a similar experience on another car, and it ended up being slivers of a spun bearing.
It doesn't look like bearing material to me. If it was there would likely be a lot of other debris as well. Luckdynes has a compelling theory. What is the thickness of the pieces? This could establish whether they are parts of a tappet. You probably will never know for sure without some disassembly. Cutting open the filter and examining it would be a good idea.
Dropping the oil pan is not a big deal, and there may be more pieces laying in there that might give some more clues to the mystery. The shim bucket theory is rather compelling, but I'd be interested to see what else is floating around in there, if anything. Just guessing here, but any chance that the nut got in there by accident and found it's way to the oil pump and got buggered up in there and tore up some of the oil pump internals, accounting for the other shards?
only if there was no pickup tube . .. except for main and rod bearings, there's nothing that thin in the engine . .. those pieces still have the original finsih on both sides . .. if it had peeled off a bigger piece it wouldn't be as smoothe on the surface.
I was trying to figure out where any M6 size nuts are used in the bottom end, and the only thing I can think of is the oil pump cover (on cam drive plate), and I am not even sure of that. I think the sump baffle mounted to the bottom casing are M8. So, my long shot theory is a nut came off the oil pump housing cover and bounced all over and the pieces are something other than bearings. Possibily even a lower skirting of a piston???? Anyway, if it were mine, I would pull the bottom sump cover IMMEDIATELY. It is not simple as the bottom sump plate cover is there, and the baffles are a pain, oil pick up tube, etc., but not that big of deal. Definitely wouldn't start this again if it were mine, until this is all sorted out. Good luck... Edited to add a couple of pics of what you will see... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
many thanks everyone. update: i) there is absolutely no visible damage to any of the cam lobes, shims or buckets (from above, of course). ii) there are (allegedly) m6 nuts to the oil pump and also the baffle plates on the sump plate. iii) the bearing shell like metal fragments are aprox 0.030" to 0.032" thick. i can't see how anything can get up above the valve (and inside the bucket), create so much damage, and then pop out again. six weeks today before setting out on the european tour. please keep the ideas, opinions and comments coming. thanks again d
You can just barely see the bottom of the bucket with a small mirror . . .you'll have to spin them while you're looking at them to see damage . .. as you can see it's a straight shot in that area and then down the oil drain back passages .. . there was probably enough clearance when the nut was layed down . . . you braked hard or cornernered and it stood up and crunch . . .just speculating. You might see stray chunks down in this area leading you to the damaged bucket. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
thanks everyone. i am more and more warming to the shim bucket theory. the sump plate needs to come of anyway to checjk for further debris and peace of mind. cams will come off tonight, but first i will check closely in which direction the scoring/wear marks are on the fragments ... around the cylindrical form = bearing ... across the cylindrical form = bucket ??? research proves these buckets do crack and eventually break up. thanks again everyone cheers, d great pics "ld" ... many thanks.
great news tonight. i'll let the pictures do the talking. eternal thanks to "luckydynes". buckets from two other valves slide nicely in the aperture in question. 95% of bits accounted for ... but still going to lower the sump pan - just in case. new filter, new oil .... flush .... new filter and finally, more new oil. many thanks to all. less than six weeks to jolly 'round europe .... will she be ready ? thanks again d Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
where is the nut from? and Id put a magnet on your filter. I found a cam cap sleeve in my banjo bolt to the oil cooler a mechanic dropped it and it somehow worked its way there and stopped, when i removed the cams I found the missing hole, now thats quality work!
most likely a cam cap nut that was dropped and not recovered so a new one was used. easy to have happen, when your pulling the cams they can suddenly rotate and pop a cap up causing the nut to go flying.
Looks like you really dodged a bullet here. I ALWAYS count the hardware coming off and going back on. If something gets dropped, work stops until it's located. I worked with a guy who dropped a nut like that down a spark plug hole. Not only damaged the piston, it cracked the cylinder sleeve. The one day tune-up turned into two weeks of lost time and cost a thousand $ to fix.
brakes overhaul while she's in bits, methinks. has anyone any tips re rebuilding handbrake stuff on rear calipers ? many thanks in anticipation. cheers, david ps - last pic shows metal bits in filter element ..... when sorted, needs a couple of oil flushes, i think. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
