Call off the Search Police - I tried!! First, my mechanical skills are limited to brake pads, light bulbs and of course routine blinker fluid changes. So, please no posts advising me to get a garage lift, engine hoist, etc. Have any of you had an independent F-mechanic rebuild a QV engine, top and bottom? Can you share how much it cost and how long it took? I ask because there are several what I would call higher mileage cars (70K miles on one, 50K on another) on my list of prospective purchases that look great. I'd get a compression/leakdown on either before purchase, but realistically I know time and miles are marching on, and want to negotiate wisely. Thanks!
I'd say with those low milage cars you have another 10-15 years left of driving before you need to tear the engine down. But besides that based on what I have seen it would cost about $7 - 10 K for the complete rebuild by someone else. It depends on what needs to be done so that would give you a gauge to go by. I'm sure that there are others on the site who either did thhis or had it done and they can come up with the numbers. My 2c and enjoy the ride
Eugenio's Ferrari Service http://emelbon.tripod.com/eugeniosferrariservice.html I have seen him rebuilding 308 and 355 engines. Worth a try, he may have room to fit you in. No one in California has touched my 308 GT4 but him.
Yes, Eugenio's website is excellent - just didn't see the rebuild prices on there. I should probably clarify that this is hypothetical. I just want to know my worst case repair bill for a higher mileage car, and I'd guess that this would be it.
There is an ad in Forza magazine which shows complete rebuilt 308 longblocks for $7500.00. I think this could give you a worst case scenario cost. Talking with the guys at Bobileif Motors awhile ago this seems about right. I think they are fairly reasonable to rebuild as far as Ferraris go. Darrell.
50k to 70k miles is nothing. Might need to freshen up the top end, but the bottom end will last a good long time.
good answer, don't call. i would be moved to the back of the line if Eugenio found out I suggested a phone call based on a hypothetical job. so good luck finding your car, hope you will be as happy with yours as I am with mine. and my 2 pennies worth... let the results of the PPI give you the negotiating point. if your potential seller has any experience in business dealings, your negotiation on a hypothetical future cost might only piss him off, and you may not fair as well as you could have, if you stuck with the facts from the PPI. so choose a good mechanic to perform the PPI for you.
I think Joseph above has it pretty nuts on! Other than that, I don't think 50K or 70K is really high miles either. These cars are not nearly as fragile as some people think. There are many of them with 100K+ and still running strong. Mine is approaching 100K and still runs great. Will I need to rebuild it at some point in the future? I'm sure I will, but until then I'm going to keep enjoying it! One last piece of advice from me...look for the car that best suits you and is the best deal for you. Don't concentrate solely on mileage.
I rebuilt my 308 a few years ago and it cost me over 8K in parts alone. Thats with new (rebuilt) short block, new SS valves and head work, waterpump, caps wires & rotors, timing belts, tentioners, clutch, etc... If I added in my own Fcar wannabe mechanic labor cost of $2.75/hr and 97,000 hours, well, it gets expensive....
My top end was rebuilt last year by FoBH before I bought the car. Bill came to $13,000 for the PO. I agree with Dave, no need to rebuild the bottom unless you have too. Call Eugenio or Monaco Motors in Canoga Park. I was quoted 9k on my old 78 308 for a topend rebuild a couple of years ago.
Once you start, you can't stop. While you have the engine out, there are all kinds of things to replace while you have access. Realistically, if you do everything your heart tells you to do, it's going to cost $15K if you have a garage do it all for you with Ferrari parts.
I am rebuilding my own 308 motor myself, using my own labor, so I don't know if its relative to your question. No major parts damaged, just what "I" would call a standard overhaul. And this could start a whole new thread, as every mechanic seems to differ on what needs to be done. I grew up working on cars being taught you always mill the heads. Well, I stopped doing that long ago unless I deem it imperitive, as I feel metal removed is metal that cant be replaced. Many also feel you need to deck the block, line bore the main journals, index the cylinders, replace all bolts and studs, and we havnt even begun head work yet. I have come to realise, that engines, especially aluminum ones, are very plastic, in that they bend and warp slightly as they heat and cool. That slightly warped head WILL flatten back out when its torqued down, and it WONT leak. And even the 308 manual says you need to torque down the heads before measuring the main journals. Doesnt that tell you the motor is somewhat flexible? And you have to know that gearbox will add structural integrity as well, and it hasnt even been heated up yet. So, maybe after mechanic X takes all that metal off, once its running mine might be even straighter? To date, I have new Wiseco pistons @10.4:1, with reground liners, that cost me a total of about $1300. I have another $1400 into gaskets, seals, carb kits and bearings from TRutlands, and $85 to have my crank polished, magnafluxed, and Xrayed. I have not begun head work yet, but with a new set of valves I am guessing over $1K. I also need some syncros and odds and ends parts, coat the headers, Maybe another $1500? So already I am up pushing close to $6K. If I was doing it for money I maybe have 50 hours into it so far, maybe another 50 to finish. But add in all that extra machining and the associated labor, and it could double. But the biggest question to ask, if your paying for the work, is what is getting done? Rebuilt to you and rebuilt to me, could be totally different things. All the used parts places have sold one or two used pistons to various people, so we can assume there are "rebuilt" engines out there running around with mismatched pistons. So maybe they are just rebuilt time bombs? Maybe that low mileage beauty has no record of that broken timing belt oops, and they did the cheapo fix and called it a engine out service.
$15k is about right. I had a total rebuild done by Ferrari dealer to stock last year, re-seal tranny and cvs, new water pump, new a/c seals and bearing, and some other little things here and there. My advice is to do it right and not be tempted to cut corners. Yeah, the money hurts, but the peace of mind and finished product make up for it. The big question for me: was rebuilding the right decision in the first place? The value of the car might have gone up $4,000? Oh well, the money's gone but my Ferrari lives!
I'm currently undergoing a complete engine rebuild and the initial quote was around the 9-10kUSD mark but has since risen to 13kUSD.Rebuild includes complete head reco including new valves,springs,buckets with a bit of porting,A new rear bank exhaust cam with the the other 3 cams reground,new hi comp pistons and rings with liner hone,complete gasket kit,2nd gear synchro,big end bearings,main bearings,diff bearings,new clutch, oil pump overhaul with new pump gear,new belts and tensioners,engine block cleaned and heads,gearbox and bell housing bead blasted and I also had the cam covers polished with a satin finish and a few other things that I cant remember right now.For me the biggest thing thats got me is the time its taking.9 months later and still not finished.Next month maybe but I've heard that before
Yeah they told me 3-4 months.I must admit they are doing a thourough job but 9 months+ is still excessive
Wow, 9 months and $13k... That's just insane! Yet another reason why I maintain my own Ferrari. The work gets done on my timetable, and for the cost of parts, except machine shop labor. I'm sure that you guys installing high compression pistons in your carb 308s are well aware that the carb motors handle high compression a little different than injected motors. And that the car can start to get a little more expensive to operate over around 10.2:1 CR.
I'd use 11 - 14K as a budget......I also agree with krowbar's reasoning....watch the way Napolis cares for his P4s.....they clean, measure, and repair.... I don't see them tossing a bunch of original parts out the back door!!!!
Let us know how much better it goes with the higher compression pistons I am interested to see if you can easily notice the difference on the street.
