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308 Experts: Need help deciphering what I am looking at here

Discussion in '308/328' started by tommott77, Jul 16, 2009.

  1. tommott77

    tommott77 Formula Junior

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    #1 tommott77, Jul 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well, here is the latest 308 I am looking at. It is a '79 GTS, VIN #29227. I am a bit confused by the car probably due to me greenness with 308s, but hopefully some of you guys can help me zero in at what exactly I am looking at.

    First off I am not 100% sure whether the car was imported as a US spec or Euro spec. The car appears to have Euro bumpers from the exterior shots, but from the picture of the engine bay (once you look past the rust on the water shield and coil bracket) the car has twin distributors. I am guessing at this point that the car is probably a US spec car with a Euro bumper conversion. I believe that there are other distinguishing attributes between the Euro spec and US spec cars but I am not sure as to what they are. Maybe some of you all can help point them out.

    Also the interior looks a bit off to me. There is black, red, and tan in there. I like the red seats and door panels but for some reason they look out of place with the all black carpeting. Can somebody tell me if there is something non-original going on in there?

    Obviously there is not much of a resource for VIN#s on the GTSs (see other thread), but I was wondering if by chance anybody has ever come across this VIN# before? I went over to the GTB register to see if I might be able to find any clues through cross-referencing, but to no avail. There are 14 #'s missing between the two last GTBs. I am assuming that there was a run of a good number of GTSs completed.

    As you all can see the car is far from perfect and does need some work, but rest assured that is what I am looking for. I know I don't have to ask, because I am sure that you guys are going to do it anyways, but it would be helpful if you all could pick this car apart. Just in case I happened to miss something.

    Here she is………….
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  3. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2004
    2,335
    All the signs of a US car. Rectangular sidemarkers, even has the pulley in place for the air pump which has been removed. Chances are it wasn't even a black car. Typical 30 years of ?improvement? while leaving 14" wheels in place. If the engine proves sound it will make a great starter. What's to know with the vin?...what you see is what you get. Give him 20 bills and change the belts.
     
  4. tommott77

    tommott77 Formula Junior

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  5. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
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    It's a US car that's been messed with (and neglected).
    Standard North American side markers.
    I see a pulley on the aft exhaust cam for the missing airpump.(US item)
    Snorkle hose is missing.
    Can't see a charcoal canister on it (a US item).

    Good luck
     
  6. tommott77

    tommott77 Formula Junior

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    #5 tommott77, Jul 16, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2009
    Is there anything specifc that you see that makes you think that the car was not originally black? Did I miss some overspray?

    Is there any sign of the original emissions equipment still on there that you can see? It looks like the stock exhaust is still on there along with the often missing muffler cover.
     
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  8. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    US spec car with proper Euro bumpers and grill rather than reproduction parts by the looks of it. The engine looks dirty, well used and no time spent keeping it up. Yeah $20K tops, the car probably needs pretty much everything from suspension bushings to oil leak repairs and get rid of those over-inflated looking tires! Looks like you could float that baby across a lake without it sinking.
     
  9. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    I would need more detailed pictures of the engine bay at different angles, especially the aft section. Injection tubes on the exhaust manifolds etc................
     
  10. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

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    #8 greyboxer, Jul 17, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2009
    Can't see any tan but the rest of the interior looks standard colors to me - it looks like some of the seat leather may have been replaced (but not the driver's piping) and the steering wheel needs a good feed

    The tires could be very old - check the date code

    Build date about September 1979
     
  11. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

    Jun 7, 2007
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    Definitely a US spec car, rear deck lid gives it away immediately.
     
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  13. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    As do the slowdown lights on the dash.
     
  14. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #11 Newman, Jul 17, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2009
    No signs of the smog parts. There is supposed to be a small sphere mounted on the right side engine compartment wing by the airbox, aint there. No pollution pump but the drive pulley is there on the cam. No air injection plumbing and no sample tubes for setting the HC levels at the ports. There should also be a small vacuum pump mounted ahead of the engine down low that draws unburned HC's from the airbox after shutdown for around 4 minutes. The Aircleaner is a US spec piece (as seen by the pivot on the snorkel) that is equipped with the vacuum door that works in conjunction with the small vacuum pump for HC removal. You are missing everything by the looks of it.

    The best way to tell a ferrari's original colour is to scrape off a touch of frame rail grime, scabs and finally the chassis paint to see whats under it. The frames are body colour first then blacked out.
     
  15. Paul308GTSi

    Paul308GTSi Formula Junior

    Oct 26, 2008
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    You've got an American car with Euro spec bumpers and mirrors ... although it's tired it can be a help especially since it sounds like you want one to do up. Some guys buy a car that is 90% and spend a heap making it 100%. Why not save a many thousands and get a tired car , , then spend that same money on improvements.

    It probably has always been black , , they usually go from non-red TO red. My car was originally black , at 3 years old they owner at the time changed it to red , , it has since had at least another coating of red. After all this red paint I had to remove door trim to search out any old black paint.

    I think it will be good to see another poor tired old 308 brought back to it's former glory ... good luck mate !
     
  16. tommott77

    tommott77 Formula Junior

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    #13 tommott77, Jul 17, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2009
    Thanks for the build date info. The roll hoop seems to be covered in some sort of white/tan, but I have not seen too many GTSs so this might be the norm. I guess that most of the 308s that I have seen the curtains (I mean seats) match the capret, sorry I could not resist.

    Thanks for the input. I have read all the horror stories here of how much money that it takes to bring a 308 back to 100%. That is not going to be goal any time in the near future with this car. I have a propensity to stop driving my projects cars once I get them to certain point and to be honest with you a car that I cannot drive without worrying about every waking moment is almost worthless to me in my book. I want a driver, hence the car we are discussing. When I am ready to sell the car, albeit 3 years from or 13, I will reexamine the market at that point and have that determine what state I bring the car up to. If values have gone up substantially then a full restoration might be in order, if not I will just pass it on to the next guy.
     
  17. 8valve

    8valve Formula 3

    Sep 3, 2003
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    As does the bulky airfilterbox....
     
  18. 8valve

    8valve Formula 3

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    The inner roll hoop is tannish/off-white in colour on this car. Also the targaroof panel behind the seats has off-white accents.
     
  19. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    those tires look like balloons
     
  20. tommott77

    tommott77 Formula Junior

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  21. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Were it me, I'd keep looking for a 1977 or earlier and skip the Catalyst exhaust altogether..

    If you want a GTS though that's not an option...

    The red interior is an acquired taste but that looks like OEM, to my eye...

    The correct airbox nuts are $8.00 each, therefore we have wingnuts (Metric wingnuts???)

    I agree the square sidelights mark a North American car as do the dual distributors on the engine...the missing air box rubber accordian is $80.

    So you see how quickly these missing emission itmes will snowball.....what's the mileage?

    That's a good 5 digit VIN for the year of this vehicle........unless some mobsters stamped it on there! LOLOLOL!
     
  22. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Early headliners were an off white vinyl........later GTS went to the fabric.

    Black vinyl rear shelf was option, IIRC......instead of the cloth as base equipment.
     
  23. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Otherwise I say "not so bad"....a few weekends of careful detailing, five V rated FULDA tires from Goodyear Germany...a few shipments from Ricambi and TRutlands and it'll start to shape up.

    Finish removing the air pumps, rusty air rails and injector nozzles, control valves..

    And then it'll need a tuneup and all the rubber lines changed, check the CV boots as well......
     
  24. M.James

    M.James F1 Rookie

    Jun 6, 2003
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    +1 Some emissions crap is missing - BFD, unless you are required to SMOG the car in your home state. If you wish, there are parts cars around the country that can lend you pieces as-you-go to make things whole again. It won't stop the car from running, so you can do your research while you drive the rest of the summer. A solid 30K Major with a few 'extras' in the hose (fuel & coolant) and wiring departments (plug wires, new fusebox), and you have yourself a solid driver!
     
  25. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    May 4, 2001
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    This is really a 308 you can enjoy. If it were mine I would fix it with as much from AutoZone as I could and drive the wheels off of it. Everyday. I would be so much fun to drive one of these cars and NOT worry where you park, or the milage, or the seat leather, or the...

    I am serious
     
  26. Beta Scorpion

    Beta Scorpion Formula 3

    Jun 22, 2006
    1,190
    Some has been mentioned before but here is my take on it:

    Engine: Wrong nuts on air box, missing rubber connector to Right outside scoop, coils are different. Rust above coils. Smog pump and charcoal canister are missing.

    Wrong bumpers. Dull wheel emblems. Tires look correct size. The original XWX had a diameter of 25.1" and I suspect these are similar.
    If you are putting fresh rubber on the car, realize they don't make P4000 in 205/70/14 any longer so someone may want those if you don't.
    Interior looks fine, you have the original steering wheel, shift knob and rubberized carpets. These items are frequently missing.

    Other 'plus' points: spare tire compartment lid is not bent. Muffler guard is still in place and it has the original wheels, though they need to be repainted.
     

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